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The PCOs and The Drowning Boy

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Am I the only one who thinks that the Police's defence against the actions of their officers in this incident, is completely lame?

I sincelerly hope that the two PCOs in this case think about that little boy every day for the rest of their lives because they did nothing to help him, even if it would have been futile anyway.

To suggest that their actions were correct because "they weren't trained", is insulting to pretty much every human being who values a child's life. Worst is the insult to the parents of this little boy. It's worth noting that he had gone into the water himself to try and save his little sister.

Funnily enough, his level of training didn't seem to matter to him.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    From what I understand the little boy had already vanished under the water by the time the PCOs arrived. In those circs, no I don't think they did anything wrong. If he had been flailing around and they had seen where the boy had gone under then yes, I would have expected them to take some physical action themselves, but as it was, it's sad but a no blame situation.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd expect anyone who could swim to try and do something.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A person can be recovered even after a few minutes underwater, katralla. To not even try to find him and help is tantamount to just letting him die IMHO. Unforgiveable.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Was it a pond or a lake- that bbc article says both? I think the difference matters because quary lake type places are really dangerous under the water, whereas what I'd consider a 'pond' would be less dangerous.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it was only 6 foot deep but this is still misinformed thread imo.

    For starters one of the PCSOS went off to the main road to meet the emergency services as it was a place that was off the road and out of the way!

    But yeah one of them at least should been straight in there, its fucking disgusting to just stand there.

    Poor brave little kid saving his sister, its appauling.

    If I turned up there I'd have been straight in looking for him whether I could find him or not!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The "he'd already disappeared under the water" excuse is surely all the more reason to get in? You're not going to find him standing around at the side of the lake, are you? Unless it was quicksand or the lack of training they're referring to was an inability to swim, they have no excuse. It's not so much that they did nothing, it's the fact that they just seemingly fucked off the parents afterwards. A public naming and shaming or sacking isn't necessary, but at least a private apology to the parents at the time explaining themselves would've been the decent thing to do.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd have gone in, despite the futility (and some people should realise this) of trying to find somene who is underwater and can't be seen. Just because yo've jumped in the water doesn't make it easier to find someone.
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    littlemissylittlemissy Posts: 9,972 Supreme Poster
    Whowhere wrote: »
    I'd have gone in, despite the futility (and some people should realise this) of trying to find somene who is underwater and can't be seen. Just because yo've jumped in the water doesn't make it easier to find someone.

    But it shows that you tried to do something instead of just standing there watching and waiting. That's the point.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Exactly. I think it's awful that they didn't even try to go in the water to save him. I would have rather gone against 'procedure' and lost my job and at least tried to save him than not.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    One to radio and one to go in.

    I accept that it can be hard to find someone once they're under water, it's even harder if you're on the bank.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think it's hard for us to judge, not having been in that situation. No doubt these PCSOs will feel the guilt for the rest of their lives for following protocol.

    I think there's nobody more than public sector workers who get criticised more. If a patient dies, it's the doctors and nurses fault. If someone isn't saved from a fire, its the firefighters fault. Etc.

    What we should bear in mind is that they're still human beings and are every bit as flawed as the rest of us. Knowing some of the lakes round where I live, they are massive, and if there was no visible sign of someone it would be as futile as a needle in a haystack.

    My dad was in the navy and told me if someone went overboard you didn't do the hollywood jump in after them, you always remain on dry land yourself - instead you throw something to them. If they're unconcious, tether someone and let them go.

    It's tragic but I think it's wrong to place the blame on the PCSOs. I think some people just want a symbolic show of them trying to do something, despite the futility (I don't know if it was futile or not though?) - but the services aren't there to be symbols but to help protect / serve etc. I feel terrible for the family of the kid, but also feel pretty bad for the PCSOs because they're going to have to live with it, and people are always going to jump to their own conclusions, that they 'couldn't be bothered' to try.

    Open verdict on the PCSOs, we can't judge them either way because we don't have the facts. Of course the father is going to dive in, what father wouldn't?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whowhere wrote: »
    I'd have gone in, despite the futility (and some people should realise this) of trying to find somene who is underwater and can't be seen. Just because yo've jumped in the water doesn't make it easier to find someone.

    It makes it a hell of a lot more likely than staying on the side. The chances of you feeling something in the water that might be a person are increased infinitely by actually being in the water.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So why haven't the members of the public that found them and called the emergency services being blamed too for just standing and watching? Afterall they would have seen the child before it went under, so why aren't they to blame if you want to put blame on someone? I'll tell you why, it doesn't make as good a story!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I thought the offical advice is to NOT swim after someone in distress.

    ROSPA: "You should do everything possible to avoid having to enter the water because experience shows that often the would-be rescuer becomes a casualty. If you have to make a rescue attempt, think of your own safety first and never put yourself in danger. If the rescue is too dangerous, wait until the emergency services arrive. Remember this order: shout, reach, throw, wade."
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If the wee kid had the guts to jump in after his sister then they should have had the guts to jump in after him.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Trouble is they were the emergency services - and if they're not capable of doing that one has to ask what the fuck use are they...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Trouble is they were the emergency services - and if they're not capable of doing that one has to ask what the fuck use are they...

    Are they emergency services though? I consider PCOs to be to the police what an NA is to a nurse.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    Are they emergency services though? I consider PCOs to be to the police what an NA is to a nurse.

    Which then goes to the second part of my question 'What use are they?'
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Which then goes to the second part of my question 'What use are they?'

    They're there to give us the impression that we are safer.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Which then goes to the second part of my question 'What use are they?'

    I don't think they're a good use of money tbh, and see many problems with them including how easily they are mistaken for real police officers as well as the confusion over what their role and responsibilities are.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This isn't about the fact that they were PCOs and not "proper" policemen.

    It about the fact that they were human beings... and yes Tweetie, the same would go for anyone who didn't try to help. But no-one else is using the excuse that they "weren't trained".
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The people who saw the kid go under should have jumped in and saved him, instead of expecting the police to save the kid, thats not their job, their job is to arrest people and protect people from criminals, not drowning, rescue crews and paramedics are paid for tht. but any good person should jump in instead of just standing their and waiting for the police.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Using the excuse 'we weren't trained' is just pathetic, imo.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree, but couldnt the witnesses and the cops have both tried to save the poor kid?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    dmdsexgod wrote: »
    The people who saw the kid go under should have jumped in and saved him, instead of expecting the police to save the kid, thats not their job, their job is to arrest people and protect people from criminals, not drowning, rescue crews and paramedics are paid for tht. but any good person should jump in instead of just standing their and waiting for the police.

    Surely this is more about morals instead of what they're to do adn what not to do? And if there was no paramedics and rescue crews, then the police don't have much choice.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yea, im pointing out, that everyone who was there shouldve jumped in and looked for the kid.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This isn't about the fact that they were PCOs and not "proper" policemen.

    It about the fact that they were human beings... and yes Tweetie, the same would go for anyone who didn't try to help. But no-one else is using the excuse that they "weren't trained".

    It is relevant that they were PCOs though. I wouldn't neccessarily expect a civilian to jump into the water to save a drowning child (though I may hope they'd do so), but I do expect a member of the uniformed services to do so (OK perhaps not if it's a force 9 gale, but generally I do)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think that most goodhearted people would have jumped in. those people just werent good hearted.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is relevant that they were PCOs though. I wouldn't neccessarily expect a civilian to jump into the water to save a drowning child (though I may hope they'd do so), but I do expect a member of the uniformed services to do so (OK perhaps not if it's a force 9 gale, but generally I do)

    Ah, you see the uniform as changing the relationship.

    I see a child drowning and people standing by. What annoys me is the defence put forward by the police - indicating that training is a barrier to saving a child in those circumstances.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Other than being able to swim properly (and safely) what other training would someone need to save a child? :confused:
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