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Train company working on their public image
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Well this outta do it.
The case was thrown out by the way. Nice to see their using their money to improve their service.
The case was thrown out by the way. Nice to see their using their money to improve their service.
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But yes, it is breath-takingly stupid. Even if policy of prosecuting is in place a bit of discrection wouldn't have gone amiss.
"No, of course she has not been treated harshly - if she hasn't got the decency, common sense and manners not to put her feet on the seats, she shouldn't complain if somebody else has to point it out to her. If my parents had seen me do such a thing I would have got a clip round the ear ! But I suppose I'm "old-fashioned"."
Got to love the Telegraphs comments section...
The number of times I've got off trains to find trousers covered in foot marks and dirt from peoples feet etc is ridiculous.
In the end she got nothing because it was utter bullshit, but I can understand why she'd be more bothered about a criminal record, because that is something that goes on your CV - not something that would look good for someone who wants to be a teacher (though I'm struggling to think of what the exact crime would be).
It's yet another example of "we put a sign up warning you, it must be okay" from private companies, to go along with car clampers and bank charges. Maybe I'll put a sign on my door saying that salesmen will be punched in the face, and see how far that gets me in court. If the fine does not fit the cost incurred by the crime, then it's unethical and should be illegal. I can't think of a situation where putting your feet up on a seat would warrant any sort of cleaning costs above and beyond what would normally be paid (like the cost of cleaning a taxi if you're sick in it, for example). If someone is constantly breaking the rules, throw them off the train. Don't try and make money out of them.
On a large scale it does cause extra cleaning and increased wear and tear on the seating.
The train company concerned has just spent an absolute fortune on refurbishment to these trains and they are entitled to try and keep them in as good a condition as possible!
No different from a pub, but they seem to manage by just asking people to put their feet down rather than trying to fine them. Wear and tear is a basic cost of business.
I'm not sure. I just heard that they'd thrown it out of court on the radio.
I think taking her to court was stupid but she did at least deserve a warning and fine.
Why? Who did she hurt? Who did she cost money? Who did her gross misdemeanor impose upon? No-one, that's who. She put her feet on the seat for a few seconds, someone asked her to put them down, she did. That should be the end of it.
Discrection should have been exercised by the inspector. Not all cases are the same.
Perhaps the TOC should be fined a £100,000 every single time one of its trains is even one second late. If you break the rules, you break the rules, right?
Which they were paying for anyway. That's regular wear and tear expect in any business that serves the public, that's already included in the cost of the ticket.
So when you pay for a hotel that gives you the right to jump continously on the bed in muddy shoes? Gives you a right to steal towels and throw the TV out of the window? You wouldnt go into someones house and put your dirty feet on the seats, why do it on a train?
They already are charged massively for delays and cancellations.
Interestingly enough this is being discussed in great details on staff forums. Here is one account from a conductor from this morning:
Well what a shock. For the pro feet on seat brigade you'll be pleased to know that I had to remove 2 seat bases from a rush hour Sheffield - Leeds service this morning because of soiled seats. So that was 2 seats less on an already crowded train.
Would you be happy if you had to stand because someones dog shit covered shoes had been on the seats?
No, I'd expect to be thrown out of a hotel for that. I wouldn't expect a fine however, unless I'd caused some obvious physical damage to the property, which putting feet on a chair doesn't, beyond what would be the expected level of cleaning. So you'd be happy if a hotel charged you extra for spilling something on the carpet, which was going to be cleaned anyway?
Yes, if it caused damage above the usual level of cleaning. Which putting muddy feet on seats does.
If you expect to be kicked out of a hotel for it, I'd be very suprised if you didnt get a bill for valeting/cleaning.
Would you think it fair game if you got ASBOed and threatened with jail after having the music just a tad too loud at 11.01 pm for the first time? Or given a 6-month driving ban for driving at 41mph on a 40mph zone? Or being arrested after slurring your words while at a pub (since being drunk in one is illegal)? Or do you recognise that discrection should be applied depending on the circumstances of each case?
That this woman was sent to court was a monumental waste of time and money for all concerned, and could have seriously fucked up the woman's long term career prospects. Talk about overkill.
Of course there must be some discretion. As I said above taking her to court was a harsh treatment. You do have to be seen though to have a level playing field and may be a fine would have been more appropriate.
Again the news story doesnt perhaps give the full facts. She may have been repeatedly warned, she could have been abusive when asked. OF course the article shes protrayed as goody two shoes!
She should have been fined fifty quid instead. That would be fair.
The TOCs have to pay for the damage- extra repairs to the vehicles, dry cleaning to damaged clothes- and that cost is reflected in the ticket price.
Interestingly, the TOC is backed up completely by the Passenger Transport Executive for Merseyside.
The TOCs are already fined quite heavily if they cause delay to themselves or other TOCs.
I think a little discreation would have served fine here, ask her to remove her feet if she puts them back on the seat, refuses to move them chuck her off the train. If she gets abusive then prosecute her.
She will have been told more than likely. The MerseyRail Units have the message frequently through the automated public address system!
The courts should throw this out, and ask why measures were not in place to resolve this in a sensible manner. And the jobsworth bastard that did it ought to be retrained. If he had faced abuse or resistance then he might have been justified in taking a more robust approach.
How are we expected to encourage a society of reason, consensus and peaceful conflict resolution when systems of enforcement react so harshly in the first instant? Especially when passengers are continually asked (sometimes justifiably) for their patients when delays and cancellations occur.
If train companies wish to connect with the humanity and rationality of commuters, then they should extend commuters the same courtesy.
Disgraceful.
6. Unacceptable behaviour
(1) No person shall use any threatening, abusive, obscene or offensive language
on the railway.
(2) No person shall behave in a disorderly, indecent or offensive manner on the
railway.
(3) No person shall write, draw, paint or fix anything on the railway.
(4) No person shall soil any part of the railway.
(5) No person shall damage or detach any part of the railway.
(6) No person shall spit on the railway.
(7) No person shall drop litter or leave waste on the railway.
(8) No person shall molest or wilfully interfere with the comfort or convenience of
any person on the railway.
These same commuters who complain and kick up a fuss where their £1000 Versace suits are damaged by the crap left on the seats by those who put their feet on the seats! :rolleyes: