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That beloved European Union

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Nigel Farage has set up an online petition calling on Gordon Brown to give the British people a say on it. Feel free to sign it if you feel that way inclined. :flirt:

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    spam-big.jpg
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not technically, I mean we can discuss the merits or not of a petition on the EU. That was the idea. Aren't I allowed to post links?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote: »
    spam-big.jpg

    :lol:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Runnymede wrote: »
    Not technically, I mean we can discuss the merits or not of a petition on the EU. That was the idea. Aren't I allowed to post links?

    It's generally considered bad manners to steam in promoting your own website without contributing to the community first.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't like the EU too much myself actually...
    What is everyone else's opinion on it? You want in or out of the EU? What about the euro?:chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Im all for the euro
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We voted for it in 1974, if you don't like it go and argue with your mum and dad.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    We voted for it in 1974, if you don't like it go and argue with your mum and dad.


    what happens if one of them voted for it (and regrets it) and one didn't (and doesn't regret it)?

    Also we voted for the European Economic Community, not the European Union...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Should we vote on every trade agreement we ever make? On the "special relationship" with the US? On the colour of Lord Irvine's wallpaper?

    People had their say and voted for it. And I don't think there should be anotehr election until people actually understand what the EU actually does. An ill-informed electorate meant the north east has an unelected assembly rather than an elected one, and I'd hate something as daft as that to happen again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Should we vote on every trade agreement we ever make? On the "special relationship" with the US? On the colour of Lord Irvine's wallpaper?

    People had their say and voted for it. And I don't think there should be anotehr election until people actually understand what the EU actually does. An ill-informed electorate meant the north east has an unelected assembly rather than an elected one, and I'd hate something as daft as that to happen again.

    I understand what the EU does and I'm against it. Also how far do you take people being ill-informed? perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to vote in elections until they pass some test...

    PS I wouldn't worry about there being an unelected assembly for long - its being abolished.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also we voted for the European Economic Community, not the European Union...

    Technically we did, we vote for the party we think will be our best leaders for the next 4/5 years. This includes Europe, the fact that the Tories were in government when the EU was formed (all be it with some resistance) shows there's general acceptance of the who thing.

    I think the EU is great, I don't see any good strong opinons that state otherwise.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    -kenny- wrote: »
    Why?

    cos in my opinion its a good think for the uk
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Also how far do you take people being ill-informed? perhaps they shouldn't be allowed to vote in elections until they pass some test...

    I won't even go there, because I don't think stupid people should be allowed to vote. It's because of idiots that we have lowest-common-denominator politicians who are allowed to get away with murder so long as they have a nice smile.
    PS I wouldn't worry about there being an unelected assembly for long - its being abolished.

    No, and that's a shame as well, because One North East seem to be just about the only governmental organisation that gives a toss about the area.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I won't even go there, because I don't think stupid people should be allowed to vote. It's because of idiots that we have lowest-common-denominator politicians who are allowed to get away with murder so long as they have a nice smile.

    Do you really think "stupid people" do vote though? The percentage of voters is so low I highly doubt it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    Should we vote on every trade agreement we ever make?

    But that's the point, it's no longer just a trade agreement, is it?

    Hell, even Heath said that he lied to the public about the vote, he knew where the EEC was going...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I won't even go there, because I don't think stupid people should be allowed to vote. It's because of idiots that we have lowest-common-denominator politicians who are allowed to get away with murder so long as they have a nice smile.

    So better we have an intellectual elite? Given that the 'experts' on foreign policy (RUSI, IIS) were more pro-war than the 'man on the street' I'm not sure that idea holds up.
    No, and that's a shame as well, because One North East seem to be just about the only governmental organisation that gives a toss about the area

    ONE isn't being abolished - ONE is the Regional Development Agency, which is different from the Regional assembly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    nicolalou wrote: »
    Do you really think "stupid people" do vote though?

    I do, to be honest.

    It's not really a case of having an intellectual elite, but it isn't fair that someone who understands and appreciates the consequences of his vote has exactly the same voice as someone who votes for Blair because he's always voted Labour and always will, or because Blair has a nice smile. I'll get back to you when I've worked out how to deal with the wasters without being discriminatory, 'cos right now I don't know.

    So long as ONE, which is the development agency, don't get caught up in the assembly removal then it's not so bad. But at the same time, I'd still rather have had an elected assembly rather than having the numpties at Gateshead Council and North Tyneside council ruining (sorry, running) things.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    It's not really a case of having an intellectual elite, but it isn't fair that someone who understands and appreciates the consequences of his vote has exactly the same voice as someone who votes for Blair because he's always voted Labour and always will, or because Blair has a nice smile. I'll get back to you when I've worked out how to deal with the wasters without being discriminatory, 'cos right now I don't know.

    They already have it. It's called "democracy". Helps give the illusion that everyone has a say, while the rich elite and businessmen get on with running the country and making more money.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote: »
    I'll get back to you when I've worked out how to deal with the wasters without being discriminatory, 'cos right now I don't know.

    Well you won't be back with a non-discriminatory solution because yuo can't. Anyone who condones the removal of the vote for "stupid" people who don't understand the consequences of their vote is a twat.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    They already have it. It's called "democracy". Helps give the illusion that everyone has a say, while the rich elite and businessmen get on with running the country and making more money.

    Well I'd agree with that for sure. You can't elect people to any of the top jobs- Chief Constable, Director General- and they're the people who run the country really.

    I don't think stupid people should be allowed to vote, but I wouldn't want to be the one who decides who is stupid. But with Gordon's new taxes the thickies who vote Labour because they always have are going to get shafted- bet they still vote for Gordon next time, though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You'd think that someone that hates the European Union as much as me was going to milk this for all it was worth. Well, you'll be disappointed. I don't think there should be a referendum. The EU doesn't have a very good record when it comes to respecting the results of referendums - the Irish can tell you about that. If Britain voted No, they would merely delay it by a year or two before forcing us to vote again the way they want us to.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    You'd think that someone that hates the European Union as much as me was going to milk this for all it was worth. Well, you'll be disappointed. I don't think there should be a referendum. The EU doesn't have a very good record when it comes to respecting the results of referendums - the Irish can tell you about that. If Britain voted No, they would merely delay it by a year or two before forcing us to vote again the way they want us to.

    To be fair that was the Irish Government not the EU...

    It would be better to say European Government's are not very good at respecting referendums, especially as this is about a constitution (whoops...treaty) which has already been rejected by France and Holland...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    nicolalou wrote: »
    Do you really think "stupid people" do vote though? The percentage of voters is so low I highly doubt it.

    Do ONLY "stupid people" vote ?

    That low percentage may be a case for optimism i.e. intelligence is increasing.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do ONLY "stupid people" vote ?

    That low percentage may be a case for optimism i.e. intelligence is increasing.

    Well, I vote and I certainly woudn't class myself as stupid. The working class and women fought hard to get the vote and I am certainly not letting that be in vain.

    In France, 83% of registered voters, voted in the last Presidential election, why is it that the French are so determined to vote whereas the British are not? Are the French stupid? I don't actually know the percentage of the British population that vote, can anyone help out?:chin:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm all for the EU and the euro.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's generally considered bad manners to steam in promoting your own website without contributing to the community first.

    Sorry for steaming in promoting website without contributing to the community first, I'm a brute who knows nothing of online etiquette. It isn't actually my site though.
    We voted for it in 1974, if you don't like it go and argue with your mum and dad.

    The point is that what we voted for in 1974 was an economic union not a political one. Now you could say we were naïve for trusting our politicians when they told us it wasn't a political union, I mean the founders of the EEC always meant for it to be a political union, but it doesn't follow that, we therefore shouldn't be allowed to change our minds, not when we claim to be a democracy.
    I won't even go there, because I don't think stupid people should be allowed to vote. It's because of idiots that we have lowest-common-denominator politicians who are allowed to get away with murder so long as they have a nice smile.

    Are you a follower of John Stuart Mill by any chance? I think you would like a song called 'The Idiots are taking over' by a punk band called 'NOFX'. It may be true, in fact I think it is, that a 'stupid' electorate will make 'stupid' political decisions, but I don't think that justifies not giving them the vote. Not in a democracy. How do you even decide who is intelligent enough and who isn't? Is it just people who don't agree with what you think is correct? The fact is the intelligentsia are usually stupider than ordinary people in many instances. They're just too full of themselves to see it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    personalyl i think the EU isa good idea, badly implemented, and should only influence trading standards and without duty across borders and free movement

    they shouldnt move into crime etc etc etc
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    personalyl i think the EU isa good idea, badly implemented, and should only influence trading standards and without duty across borders and free movement... they shouldnt move into crime etc etc etc
    :eek: You think that? I've got you all wrong! :p
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