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US to increase Israel's military aid

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has confirmed that the United States is planning a significant increase in military and defence aid to Israel.

The package would reportedly amount to more than $30bn (£14.8bn) over the next 10 years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6920988.stm

FFS, this stuff just beggars belief.. think what good uses that money could be put too! Instead of bombing innocent lebanese and the such.

I'm off out now so can't write anymore til I get back
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What's more shocking, is that they actually count this in the figure they give for overseas aid that the US Government contributes to developing countries.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Maybe they were bombing Lebanon because Hizbollah were using that as their military base to fire rockets into Israel, although it didn't help because the more one was bombing the other, the more the other one retaliated, so ceasefire is really the only option. In many ways the best viable option is a "cold war" in the Middle East because it is unlikely that true peace can be obtained.

    There is one thing supplying a country with arms and another going in to fight the war for them. That is something we certainly do not want the Americans to do because they appear to have no value whatsoever for human life outside of their own people, if even that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is one thing supplying a country with arms and another going in to fight the war for them. That is something we certainly do not want the Americans to do because they appear to have no value whatsoever for human life outside of their own people, if even that.

    Let's not pretend the US government actually cares about the American people. It's their (potential) healthcare money they're spending on weapons for another country.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What do other countries spend their (potential) healthcare money on?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ideally nobody would need to spend any money on arms and we'd have world peace.

    This can only happen when globally people stop being labelled as "us" and "them". People should be allowed to have different nationalities, cultures, religions, ideologies etc but still not be treated as a "them".

    By supplying Israel with arms they are taking a step to recognise Israelis as part of a world that has the right to defend itself against attack.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By supplying Israel with arms they are taking a step to recognise Israelis as part of a world that has the right to defend itself against attack.


    *splutter*

    You're kidding, right?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it would be nice, but no Americans do really want to control all the world themselves, including the UK....
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    minimi38 wrote: »
    What do other countries spend their (potential) healthcare money on?

    Their own arms, rather than the arms of their political allies. They also don't subsequently have the cheek to claim that it's foreign aid. Or maybe they do. I'm not claiming that the American government is alone in furthering the interests of a select few at the expense of the majority.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That has nothing to do with healthcare or how their government cares about its population.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well it would be nice, but no Americans do really want to control all the world themselves, including the UK....

    What? :confused:

    I was commenting on your opinion of Israel.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    My opinion of Israel?

    I do not think the war in Lebanon last year was right, partly because there were so many innocent Lebanese civilians caught up in it, so it was wrong on moral grounds.

    It was also wrong on tactical grounds in my opinion. You cannot bomb away your enemies, and even if you do succeed in bombing most of them away you are likely to create more enemies in the process, and I think Israel did exactly that.

    However Lebanon and Gaza must take responsibility as a whole to ensure that rockets are not being fired into Israel from within their borders, and if they are not willing to take this responsibility then you can understand Israel wanting to take the measures themselves. This either means air-strikes or sending in tanks, neither of which is going to be popular. The latter is preferable because its less likely to cause civilian casualties but does give the appearance of "occupation". It is also the course more likely to lead to casualties on your own side but I guess you have to evaluate all human life as equal in these situations.

    As for the civil war in Gaza, this is something they must sort out for themselves, and it is not for Israel or the USA or anyone else for that matter to interfere, unless one of the parties invites them in, i.e. if one particular side is getting massacred as in genocide and needs to call in a third-party nation to protect them, and then it should be preferably for that reason - to protect them, not to do the identical thing to the other side.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I think Israel has to take responsibility for its continued occupation of Shebaa Farms.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If they gave up ownership of them would it be to Lebanon or Syria?

    And what would Lebanon use it for? For Hezbollah to fire rockets into Israel? That is why Israel may well continue to "occupy" it, but they probably allow the original farmers to live there and work there in peace and if Lebanon wants to grant these people citizenship and voting rights then let it.

    Palestinians living on the West Bank do enjoy more rights than you might think. They do have voting rights, albeit for their own government (The Palestinian Authority), not for the Israeli government. Gaza is no longer "occupied". It hasn't been since the summer of 2005.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is excellent news. US policy has for decades featured the security of Israel as a high priority, long may that continue. Since its creation Israel has been surrounded by hostility - for almost six decades Israel has been subject to repeated threats and terror. In the 21st century this continues with Iranian aggression and Iranian threats. Iranian plans to obtain a nuclear weapon become all the more chilling when the Iranian president threatens to 'wipe Israel off the map.' It's fantastic that the US recognises the importance in protecting Israel. Where else in the Middle East are gay rights/women's rights so good? Indeed, Israel was years ahead of Britain on gay rights...

    Of course, some Western allies in the region are also threatened by Iran - Israel is not unique in being endangered by Iran. It's therefore important that US support is extended to such allies. (Mainly Egypt, UAE, Saudi Arabia).
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Oh dear. This will destabalise the Mid East even more now.

    One day someone is going to retaliate against Israel in the way Israel has attacked ruthlessly innocent countries. One day, when the US economy has broke, and it can't run to Israels help, they'll get slaughtered. And the sad truth is, it'll be Israeli civilians who pay. Israelis, who, many didn't agree with thier Government. And the Israeli govewrnment will seek refuge, likey in the USA or UK.

    Israel is like the kid who always sucked up to the playground bully, and always had the protection. Until the bully was expelled.

    Israel plays a dangerous game.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is excellent news.

    No it's not. A better thing to do would be to try and ease tensions diplomatically, arming a country to the teeth only makes matters worse and will cause other countries to follow suit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't see why this is necessary. Neither is it helpful - what message is this giving out to Palestinians? Both sides are suffering in this seemingly never-ending conflict. Why the USA assists one side so heavily, it beggars belief.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    I don't see why this is necessary. Neither is it helpful - what message is this giving out to Palestinians? Both sides are suffering in this seemingly never-ending conflict. Why the USA assists one side so heavily, it beggars belief.

    Because the USA are a bunch of cunts and want to eliminate the opposition to thier world control - the Mid East has a rather tasty supply of natural reasources, but are most opposed to the USA. Israel appears to be immune from world criticism, due to the USA running the UN, and therefore can exterminate Arabs at will. This works well into the USA's agenda. Zionism is currently running our world.

    Oh well, I am waiting for the South to Succeed at the next Presidential election anyway. A republican black candidate... a woman for the democracts... Succession time!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote: »
    Oh well, I am waiting for the South to Succeed at the next Presidential election anyway. A republican black candidate... a woman for the democracts... Succession time!
    Do you really think that they would do anything radically different to Bush, in regards to the Israel-Palestine issue? I seriously doubt it myself.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    stargalaxy wrote: »
    Do you really think that they would do anything radically different to Bush, in regards to the Israel-Palestine issue? I seriously doubt it myself.

    The Southerners have a rather, shall we say, "different" view of the Jewish people. :rolleyes:

    As for the two presidential candidates, nope, I don't. Modern Western democracies are just a vote of who's face you like more.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote: »
    The Southerners have a rather, shall we say, "different" view of the Jewish people. :rolleyes:

    As for the two presidential candidates, nope, I don't. Modern Western democracies are just a vote of who's face you like more.

    Are you suggesting that you'd like anti-semites in power?

    Why do you think Israel has a fortress mentality? It couldn't be anything to do with past experience of leaders with an irrational hate for Jews, could it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Nah... it's all to do with protecting the haul of the biggest theft of the 20th century. If only its rightful owners would piss off and stop making such as outrageous demands as having their property returned to them there would be no need for such military aid packets.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    Are you suggesting that you'd like anti-semites in power?

    Why do you think Israel has a fortress mentality? It couldn't be anything to do with past experience of leaders with an irrational hate for Jews, could it?

    I didn't say that. I just said a joke about the south succeeding as they don't like women or black people. But they wouldn't fund Israel any longer if it happened, which is very unlikley. Keep up. I didn't say I wanted it to happen... I jsut want to laugh at the opinions of the Rednecks at the next Presidential Elections. The apparent World Leading Nation has some of the most backwards-thinking people about in it.

    Israel at the end of the day, just SHOULD NOT have been created at all. Let's be honest. The Jewish were always a nomadic peoples. They didn't need a homeland - they were nomadic ffs. I don't know why it was felt we needed to make Israel. We should have just left the world alone... but then again, when we made the British Empire we enforced Boundries on god-knows how many nationless tribes creating civil war.

    I caused nothing but problems. Especially as the land was forcefully taken off someone else. You know, most of the time, when one nation steals land, we condem it... then the fact Israel invaded and occupied more land didn't help the already tense situation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote: »
    Israel at the end of the day, just SHOULD NOT have been created at all. Let's be honest. The Jewish were always a nomadic peoples. They didn't need a homeland - they were nomadic ffs.


    Er, The Jews were nomads? That's an interesting rewriting of history. Could it be they moved, not due to a wanderlust, but the fact people kept throwing them out of their countries or killing them?

    http://chi.gospelcom.net/DAILYF/2003/03/daily-03-31-2003.shtml

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/history/expulsionfromfrance.shtml

    http://www.channel4.com/history/microsites/S/sh01/struma2_t.html

    http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/RUSpogroms.htm

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/genocide/holocaust_overview_01.shtml
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix

    So what, they didn't travel to France, England, or Russia at all? They just popped into existence out of nowhere?

    The Jewish have never had a homeland. There was never a Jewish country before the creation of Israel. This is a fact.

    Britain was a Christian Country. Italy is too. The Mid Eastern states are Muslim. And we can go on and on. But the truth just is, the Jews did not really "need" a Jewish country. Indeed, the creation of Israel has led to probably MORE hatred of Jews by Muslims who formely, whilst not being pro-jew, obviously, had no real opinion. I don't see why Israel was needed, in any way.

    The Jews have suffered more from its creation from a hatred point of view.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    when the Iranian president threatens to 'wipe Israel off the map.'


    Did he? or did he just express a wish to see regime change in Israel?

    http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/jonathan_steele/2006/06/post_155.html
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote: »
    So what, they didn't travel to France, England, or Russia at all? They just popped into existence out of nowhere?.

    Thrown out by the Romans of Judea
    The Jewish have never had a homeland. There was never a Jewish country before the creation of Israel. This is a fact

    Judea?

    Britain was a Christian Country. Italy is too. The Mid Eastern states are Muslim. And we can go on and on. But the truth just is, the Jews did not really "need" a Jewish country. Indeed, the creation of Israel has led to probably MORE hatred of Jews by Muslims who formely, whilst not being pro-jew, obviously, had no real opinion. I don't see why Israel was needed, in any way.

    The Holocaust?
    The Jews have suffered more from its creation from a hatred point of view

    Though less from a killing point of view...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If they gave up ownership of them would it be to Lebanon or Syria?

    And what would Lebanon use it for? For Hezbollah to fire rockets into Israel? That is why Israel may well continue to "occupy" it, but they probably allow the original farmers to live there and work there in peace and if Lebanon wants to grant these people citizenship and voting rights then let it.

    Palestinians living on the West Bank do enjoy more rights than you might think. They do have voting rights, albeit for their own government (The Palestinian Authority), not for the Israeli government. Gaza is no longer "occupied". It hasn't been since the summer of 2005.

    Point being that Israel are not merely defending themselves. They are also aggressors.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Whether this is needed or not, if its not sent with a package to help those in Gaza it will look very much like America never wants peace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote: »
    So what, they didn't travel to France, England, or Russia at all? They just popped into existence out of nowhere?
    Jews were thrown out of both England and France in the middle-ages. English and French Christians also went on "crusades" murdering Jews and Muslims living other countries. They killed many Jews living in Germany as well as Muslims living in Turkey as well as the area that was once known as "Palestine".
    The Jewish have never had a homeland. There was never a Jewish country before the creation of Israel. This is a fact.
    So if you believe even the new testament where did Jesus and his disciples live? Who do you think that land belonged to before Roman invasion?
    Britain was a Christian Country.
    Learn your history. Britain was invaded by the Romans under Augustus. Queen Boadicea, who was the rightful queen of the people who lived there before tried unsuccessfully to defend it against them. Subsequently the land was also invaded by Anglo-Saxons and Vikings and Normans. Christianity spread around Europe due to the influence of the Roman Emperor known as Constantine and then it was forced conversion (convert or be killed).
    Italy is too. The Mid Eastern states are Muslim. And we can go on and on.
    And what about Spain? During the middle ages there were two big empires that went around conquering Europe - the Byzantine (Christian) empire and the Ottoman (Islamic) empire. And because Jews didn't form and empire and go around conquering countries you think they don't deserve a homeland now?
    But the truth just is, the Jews did not really "need" a Jewish country.
    History proves otherwise, in particular the Holocaust and years leading up to it. However that is not all, and not any homeland will do. The area that was given to the Jews is well defined. Note however that there is nothing at all in Jewish doctrine about conquering any other extra territories.
    Indeed, the creation of Israel has led to probably MORE hatred of Jews by Muslims who formely, whilst not being pro-jew, obviously, had no real opinion. I don't see why Israel was needed, in any way.

    The Jews have suffered more from its creation from a hatred point of view.
    They seemed pretty much hated before. So much so that all the countries in Eastern Europe were only too happy to hand over their Jews to the Gestapo. There were also conflicts within Palestine with Jews who tried to settle there (even without it being considered a Jewish nation) and Jews were poorly treated in Arabic countries.

    This is only from a political point of view. The Jewish holy-sites are based in Israel. The holiest site is that of the Temple Mount. The holiest site to which Jews may actually go is the Western Wall.

    Now, Christians are free to go to the Vatican City and Muslims are free to go to Mecca, so why should Jews not be free to go to the Western Wall?
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