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Mutton dressed as lamb

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
On sunday at the end of my driving lesson, i saw a 60+ year old woman in a mini skirt, tights and knee high boots. Just WHY? :yuck: What's the worst you've seen?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I saw a woman who had to surpass the 300 mark wearing a black spandex (see thru cuz it was stretched to the max) body suit. Then there was the guy wearing shorty shorts and a tight bright multi colored sleeveless shirt that was stretched in such a way to show off his nippes. There are the little girls at the mall with the skinny jeans, red pumps, a red and white striped off the shoulder flashdance sweater with a giant black belt in the middle.

    And what goes on at the gym is something seperate on its own. *shudders*

    The guy that walked into the pool ass naked takes the cake, though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh, not on the same subject, but I think me and my friend insulted some woman the other day when we mentioned her arse crack was showing, slightly too loud. She moved seats soon after that, and we saw her pulling her pants up.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    my_name wrote: »
    There are the little girls at the mall with the skinny jeans, red pumps, a red and white striped off the shoulder flashdance sweater with a giant black belt in the middle.

    Aren't they more lamb dressed as mutton though?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Liz McDonald on Corrie is my favorite piece of mutton dressed as lamb, I love it!

    I have to say it's not something I take issue with, mainly because there doesn't come a sudden watershed in men's lives where they have to adhere to some imaginary dress code so why the hell should there be for women. Once a woman hits a certain age she will be received with disbelief and disgust if she shows any hint of sexuality, as she is supposed to have disposed of any notion of looking sexy or womanly when she started her HRT... and should now fade into the background with "dignity" and as little commotion as possible. Pfft, it's good to see people expressing themselves, even if it isn't to my own taste.

    Infinitely preferable to a wolf in sheep's clothing, anyway ;) :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's shit but women get worse with age men get better - I want to be aman when I hit 40!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote: »
    Liz McDonald on Corrie is my favorite piece of mutton dressed as lamb, I love it!

    I have to say it's not something I take issue with, mainly because there doesn't come a sudden watershed in men's lives where they have to adhere to some imaginary dress code so why the hell should there be for women. Once a woman hits a certain age she will be received with disbelief and disgust if she shows any hint of sexuality, as she is supposed to have disposed of any notion of looking sexy or womanly when she started her HRT... and should now fade into the background with "dignity" and as little commotion as possible. Pfft, it's good to see people expressing themselves, even if it isn't to my own taste.

    Infinitely preferable to a wolf in sheep's clothing, anyway ;) :thumb:

    Oh yeah? I bet if you saw a 60 year old in a gangster tracksuit, baseball hat and the latest Nike development in fashion trainers, you'd mention it. I mean look at the stick Tim Westwood gets for trying to be a gangster in his 40's.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's hardly the same thing, IWS. It's a wider issue than clothes and doesn't directly translate between the sexes as men don't often - at any age - dress to provoke attention or be "sexy". Are you seriously suggesting that men flaunt their sexuality - at any age - by wearing pimped up tracksuits and baseball caps? Not from what I've seen. That may be recapturing your youth but it's nothing to do with expressing sexuality or virility.

    If a man flaunts his sexuality in older age (be it through clothes, as these ridiculed women do, or through other means like flashing the cash or being the big I AM) he's a charming, debonaire, distinguished bachelor... if a woman does it she's a desperate old tramp and likely to be assumed to be on the game.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Woman can look good with age. But i really don't see the mentality behind dressing like a 20 year old out on the piss.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    VinylVicky wrote: »
    It's shit but women get worse with age men get better - I want to be aman when I hit 40!

    Do they though?

    I agree that that's the way society reckons at the moment, I get why you feel that way. But is it purely because men retain their ability to reproduce as they get older/old? Or because we've been influenced into having a knee-jerk "eww" reaction when an older woman shows some skin?

    Are older women generally less attractive than older men? I think we've been fooled into thinking that because of the prevalence of older men in the media, and the dearth of older women (who get replaced by a younger model while the old, stalwart man is kept on - eg. Bruce Forsyth and Tess Daly or similar). In real life there are as many (if not more) older women who take care of their appearance, but that certainly isn't represented as fact in the media. It drives me nuts.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree Briggi. Look at someone like Helen Mirren - she looks fantastic, and while it's a different type of what we might call 'sexy' I think she's a very sexy individual.
    think we've been fooled into thinking that because of the prevalence of older men in the media, and the dearth of older women (who get replaced by a younger model while the old, stalwart man is kept on - eg. Bruce Forsyth and Tess Daly or similar)

    :yes:

    Save Moira Stuart!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    when i was in florida one time, i remember being amazed when i saw this woman who must have been in her late fifties AT LEAST - and she was wearing tight pink lycra short-shorts, lime green stilettos and some sort of sports bra.. THING, and had her hair dyed a reeally way too shade of blonde.
    it was hideous. didnt particularly help that she was mahusive! all the rolls of fat were spilling over the top of her shorts :yuck:

    what made it embarassing tho was that my sister who was about 6 at the time stopped and pointed at her and said reeeally loudly 'mum, look at THAT ugly lady' :no:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ooh the whole situation re: Moira Stuart made me bloody furious. I can't remember where I was reading about it the other day but I was hopping. Oh, and she definitely is an example of someone who improves with age, and also proof that intelligence is sexy as hell. There is much more about MS than that Natasha Kaplinski (sp?).

    As for the "mentality behind dressing like a..." argument, who says that miniskirts and boots are the sole territory of teenagers or 20somethings? I wouldn't dream of wearing a miniskirt and boots even now but it's just my personal taste, I've no qualms about other people wearing them. Anyway even if we did decide to put age limits on certain items of clothing, how could you enforce that limit? Ban anyone over 17 from going into Select:clothes shopping for teenage prostitutes? :)

    Surely clothes are a realm for freedom of expression, though what have we learned if not that freedom of expression always goes hand in hand with ridicule.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote: »
    It's hardly the same thing, IWS. It's a wider issue than clothes and doesn't directly translate between the sexes as men don't often - at any age - dress to provoke attention or be "sexy". Are you seriously suggesting that men flaunt their sexuality - at any age - by wearing pimped up tracksuits and baseball caps? Not from what I've seen. That may be recapturing your youth but it's nothing to do with expressing sexuality or virility.
    Not so much clothing, but fast cars, motorbikes, starting going to the gym and trying baldness cures to get back to what he used to look like, and other things that prove their masculinity and continuing attractiveness to the opposite sex? Often referred to as a mid-life crisis. Men are often judged for these things in the same way as women are for the way they dress.
    briggi wrote: »
    If a man flaunts his sexuality in older age (be it through clothes, as these ridiculed women do, or through other means like flashing the cash or being the big I AM) he's a charming, debonaire, distinguished bachelor... if a woman does it she's a desperate old tramp and likely to be assumed to be on the game.
    Women can equally be all those things. Like men, women have "appropriate behaviour and dress" for their age where they can still appear attractive and charming, yet not be judged by others. I mean look at viagra on wheels Peter Stringfellow if you want the male equivalent. Is he admired for flashing the cash, driving Lambos, and charming the knickers off girls half his age, or is he judged as a bit of a perve, in the same way that the female equivalent would often be judged as a bit desperate. Take away the fame and imagine he's your dad instead, and are you saying that people wouldn't see it in exactly the same way as these "mutton dressed as lamb" women.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    soraliah wrote: »
    when i was in florida one time, i remember being amazed when i saw this woman who must have been in her late fifties AT LEAST - and she was wearing tight pink lycra short-shorts, lime green stilettos and some sort of sports bra.. THING, and had her hair dyed a reeally way too shade of blonde.
    it was hideous. didnt particularly help that she was mahusive! all the rolls of fat were spilling over the top of her shorts :yuck:

    what made it embarassing tho was that my sister who was about 6 at the time stopped and pointed at her and said reeeally loudly 'mum, look at THAT ugly lady' :no:

    I think I may have seen her also :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's occasionally seen as sad and desperate for older men to behave as such, in extreme cases. Generally a well-to-do older man would be admired, slapped on the back by society and certainly not subject to ridicule purely based on his appearance. At worst you might hear mumbles of "God loves a trier" and similar.

    Is it fair to put a trend-following/scantily-clad woman or even a woman who simply refuses to bend to the twinset, pearls and sensible Aquascutum coat on reaching age 47 automatically into the same category as a man who is behaving inappropriately? Not at all.

    But to answer your question, I think these men are generally admired, possibly not by yourself as maybe you can see these things for what they are... but certainly by many other blokes. Certainly, by a LOT of younger women who are probably the same younger women who wouldn't pause for breath before deriding those of their sex who were past the age of 40 and daring to show skin. At the very least these men are judged less harshly and in a more tongue in cheek way than their female counterparts.

    One glance at the media backs this all up. Older, powerful man = attractive, marketable and desirable. Older, empowered-in-her-relative-lack-of-power woman = total pariah... unattractive to men and the kiss of death for marketers. Largely because young women are most susceptible to the media and therefore these marketing teams - being well aware of this - want to keep things as young and conventionally "attractive" as possible. For fear of reminding these young sprightly things what they will one day become and losing their hold on them. If we went by the word of TV we'd all be convinced that women just vanished into a poof of smoke at age 40, because they are very rarely - if ever - allowed to grow old in the public eye. A newer, younger, sleeker model is wheeled in. If that makes sense to anyone but me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh yeah, I get what you mean with regards to marketing. But I was saying that in normal life, men are often judged to be desperately cling onto their youth in the same way as women based on first impressions. But in marketing it really is just down to older men and younger women. I don't think you'd ever get a 13 year old boy marketed in a blatantly sexual way in the same way as a 13 year old girl. To my knowledge, it's always older bloke, younger girl, which is often the emphasis of any product they might sell you. Men are encouraged to look older and more sophisticated, whereas women are encouraged to appear younger and more girly. Therefore perhaps a better parallel to the mutton dressed as lamb idea might actually be a 16 year old boy dressing and acting older than he is.

    Oh, and as for women wearing miniskirts over a certain age. As someone who may have flicked over during Trinny and Suzannah on occasion, it's because your upper thigh starts to look less attractive the older you get, whereas you lower leg remains the same, so generally speaking older women will look less attractive in mini skirts. :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh, and as for women wearing miniskirts over a certain age. As someone who may have flicked over during Trinny and Suzannah on occasion, it's because your upper thigh starts to look less attractive the older you get, whereas you lower leg remains the same, so generally speaking older women will look less attractive in mini skirts. :p

    Yeah, yeah, we all know you watch obsessively and record the repeats on UKTV Style ;)

    Of course our bodies fail us and start to look a little sad the older we get, but surely decisions on what clothing is appropriate should be made individually (and by the person concerned, rather than a chorus of judgement) and according to what looks good. There are some 20 year olds with far worse bodies than 60 year olds and yet it is far less socially appropriate and acceptable to comment negatively (and publicly) on the former isn't it? That's a pretty clear indication that it's ok - and common - to be disgusted by age regardless of a body's condition. General rule being young, dimply rolls of blue-tinged flesh > slim though admittedly less firm older flesh? Interesting, isn't it :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote: »
    There are some 20 year olds with far worse bodies than 60 year olds and yet it is far less socially appropriate and acceptable to comment negatively (and publicly) on the former isn't it?

    No. I've lost count of the number of "I can't stand it when people have a roll of fat hanging over the top of their trousers" comments on this site.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I don't mean on this site though. What people will say on the internet is no indication whatsoever of what they'll say in public or what is "acceptable" to say in public.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What? You mean to their face?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Of course not. I mean in a public forum like maybe in a random group of accquaintances and friends or something akin to the mixture of people on this site but obviously in a real life setting.

    Most people would come out with snide comments about a woman who they considered "mutton dressed as lamb" without fear of being reprimanded or pulled up on their comments/attitude by their peers, but far fewer would comment on a fat girl's muffin top or similar. Sure, it's probably largely because none of their accquaintances are older ladies so they feel "safe" casting scorn and criticism whereas some of the accquaintances are more likely to be/know fat young women.

    I guess it's not a big deal... certainly not to most people anyway, I just think it's an enormous cop out. I find the double (triple?) standards applied are really sad... not to mention the fact that people's attitudes can be really ugly with no justification.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This is surely a prime example of a mutton moment. Especially when she does that crotch thrusting, stretch thing at the beginning, ye gods! My poor eyes.

    I don't care how good she is for her age, it's just so wrong!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E0J3pOlKbA
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Miffy wrote: »
    This is surely a prime example of a mutton moment. Especially when she does that crotch thrusting, stretch thing at the beginning, ye gods! My poor eyes.

    I don't care how goos she is for her age, it's just so wrong!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E0J3pOlKbA

    :lol: I like her ted hose :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I started reading this and thought "Uh-oh, briggi's on a bit of a rant again :razz:" but I ended up pretty much agreeing with the point she was making.

    Stringellow and Hefner do seem to get a bit of a pat on the back in a "nice work if you can get it, mate" type of way, but most people can see that they're dirty old men. My experience of men trying to relive their youth is through dirty old men chatting up girls in nightclubs, and also trying to get off with people my age that I work with. I've seen older men with trendy haircuts, silver chains, ripped jeans and trainers and cringed. While it isn't as obvious as women who dress in a certain way to relive their youth (men's clothes aren't as sexy as women's clothes at any age), it's the same point of principle behind it. But because blokes clothes aren't as "flaunty" or "sexy" as girls fashion tends to be, it's not picked up on as much, and I don't think it goes much deeper than that.

    You do get some fantastic looking older women though, Barbara Windsor and Lulu spring to mind.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    briggi wrote: »
    Do they though?
    In my eyes, yup :yes:
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    Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Posts: 16,688 Skive's The Limit
    Bri-namite wrote: »
    (men's clothes aren't as sexy as women's clothes at any age) [...] But because blokes clothes aren't as "flaunty" or "sexy" as girls fashion tends to be, it's not picked up on as much, and I don't think it goes much deeper than that.
    That's exactly why I think the difference exists.

    There's a male singer here who wears (or used to wear) his shirt unbuttoned and all the girls are screaming about him. I'd say that's a sexy way for a man to dress. But if I was an average 50 year old man wear the same thing that this singer did at 25, I'd think the same I would for a 50 year old woman wearing something sexy that mostly 25-year-olds wear.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There was acutally a 'fabulous life of sugar daddies' show on mtv - they had a hall of fame and were praising them like gods. They're all dirty old men.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote: »
    On sunday at the end of my driving lesson, i saw a 60+ year old woman in a mini skirt, tights and knee high boots. Just WHY? :yuck: What's the worst you've seen?

    Why would anyone wear that stuff? because they like the way it makes them feel.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Bri-namite wrote: »
    I started reading this and thought "Uh-oh, briggi's on a bit of a rant again :razz:" but I ended up pretty much agreeing with the point she was making.

    Haha, you cheeky git :razz: I did go off about it a bit - I guess I can blame the old hormones - but in honesty it is something that sticks in my craw.

    I agree that the basic difference in the nature and motivation behind the clothes that men and women - respectively - wear, means that they definitely aren't judged the same way. I doubt that'll ever change really, though. Sigh...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Ballerina wrote: »
    On sunday at the end of my driving lesson, i saw a 60+ year old woman in a mini skirt, tights and knee high boots. Just WHY? :yuck: What's the worst you've seen?

    because think about it, that was the fashion in the 1960s and if she's in her 60s now she would have been in her 20s then. So that is the fashion of her day.

    Also maybe her parents didn't let her wear that kind of thing when she was younger so she's making up for it now. Maybe her parents have just died recently and so this is finally her chance.

    Anyway, knee-high boots look good on anyone. (Well on women anyway)
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