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The Stop the War march...why?
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
I went on the first two of these because at that point I thought there was actualy a vague hope of being able to change the course of things.
But now, what do they actualy want? For all the troops to pack up and go home? Is that really going to be any better, the country would slip further into total anarcy and more people would suffer.
As much as I hate to admit it, now surely the best option is to do it properly. Lots more money, better organisation, more troops, give the people back their power, water etc. Then hand it back and sod off.
I didnt want this war, but seeing as its happened we have to follow through and finish it properly.
But now, what do they actualy want? For all the troops to pack up and go home? Is that really going to be any better, the country would slip further into total anarcy and more people would suffer.
As much as I hate to admit it, now surely the best option is to do it properly. Lots more money, better organisation, more troops, give the people back their power, water etc. Then hand it back and sod off.
I didnt want this war, but seeing as its happened we have to follow through and finish it properly.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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And wheres PNJ when you need him? If you can read this mate, please come back, all is forgiven.
What should be done without further ado is for the US and Britain to piss off immediately and for a UN peace-keeping force to oversee a rapid transaction of powers to a representative, elected Iraqi council.
The US would never do that though, since their one and only objective is to install a puppet regime and to have permanent control of the Iraqi revenues and to secure very lucrative reconstruction projects for American companies.
As far as I'm concerned, the UN should not provide a single soldier so long as the US remains cocky and refuses to hand over control.
Now going back to the demos, be all prepared for the mad murdering Texan’s visit to Britain in November. Because there are going to be ugly scenes indeed.
I can think of few things more gratifying than the Bushbots and right-wingers in America watching their “British friends and allies” demonstrate and heckle Bush everywhere he goes.
Yes, I too have looked back on the many posts which pnj made spouting on about the wonderful aftermath this invasion would lead to and frankly just about every rebuttal and warning to him of the spin and lies he was swallowing so unquestionably has been vindicated.
I truly wonder what he thinks of his Fox News and NY Post sources now.
Hey everybody, hows it all going, whats this I here of 'degenerative mud-slinging' in LadyJades sticky?
If 'we' pull out then does the UN have the logistical ability, or even simply the numbers, to administer Iraq?
It is only the US' long-planned goal to seize control of Iraqi assets that prevents all institutions to be run by locals for locals.
You think it will be so easy for the iraqis to run iraq again? Yes they had a functioning country before the invasion...They are a long way from that now. I think theyve got a long way to go before they can run it alone..
and any govt that is setup by iraqis will be plagued by powergrabs and corruption so will need an efficient and able military/police force to provide security.
I dont like seeing the US/UK troops there but im finding it hard to see another viable option. I dont believe Iraq would be better off if the US/UK troops pulled out.
And you dont suppose that is precisely what the US imposed ruling council with its domination by INC Bushite collaborators is all about?
At least if it were left to the Iraqis with full UN oversight and administrative infrastructure it would be their own self determinant and indigenous power struggles and not the transparent hijacking of the process to serve US interests first.
Clandestine, I have no interest in talking about the motives of the US with you..My post was about the ability of the Iraqis to govern themselves after having been so damaged by the war.
Personally I put the welfare of Iraq above spiting the US..I dont care if the US hijacks the process for their own gains so long as things are sorted for the Iraqis.
Oh, by the end of it things will be "sorted" for the Iraqis. And Im sure theyll be eternally grateful for it :rolleyes:
Well I know what I meant by sorted, what did you mean?
Although news sources in the US wont be quick to paint a comprehensive picture beyond that of how desperately the Iraqis need our presence to rebuild. :rolleyes:
The same media who convinced the public that Iraqis would be thronging gleefully to welcome our occupation.
Its not about spiting the US (which I do not) but rather a subset of its indigenous corporate interests and a minority and highly myopic political ideology that has misrepresented this issue since the start.
Iraqis can do it themselves and should be left to do so if any validity is to be gained for the "liberation" argument.
You know that he doesn't.........
Seeing as the vast majority of those who have governed Iraq for more than 2 decades were Ba'athists who will now be excluded from govt i think it is fair to say that there is little native expertise in government.
As you were keen to point out before the war, Iraq is a divided nation with many different factions, religions and races in disagreement that would make it difficult to set up a govt not to mention the lack of a monopoly of force to make such a govt work..........
Not that I welcome a civil war, but certainly with non-partisan UN administration and oversight rather than unilateral US occupation, there is greater chance for Iraqis to determine what they want rather than being forced to conform to our foreign ideals.
Basically, if Washington wants to prove that this invasion was conducted for the magnanimous last ditch resons they have come up with, then there is no better way to do so other than turning the whole situation over to the UN as soon as possible.
No, theres something thats quite a bit further from the truth, and thats your absolutely disgusting way of twisting and distorting the things people say.
I dont believe the Iraqis are in any position to govern themselves at present because we just launched a HUGE FUCKING WAR right in their back garden. We destroyed their infrastructure, their public services, all civil cohesion, their military and their police. Thats why I think they cant run a government and I made that blatantly clear in my posts.
I also never said that the Iraqis needed our presence to rebuild, but they do need a presence. If you, for some reason, have the need to belittle and insult people in order to prove your point then feel free but please dont put words in my mouth, do NOT slander me and do no associate me with your racist thoughts.
Sorry if you think I am twisting things, but your post suggested simply more of the same sort of apologetic for this invasion that has continued to come from the right wing camp regardless of the systematic string of lies and claims that have been debunked.
I may have indeed jumped on you unfairly, but i am fed up to the gills with those who absolutely refuse to concede the truth that is now as transparent as the day is long, namely that they were misled and our troops have put in risk for nothing more than wanton corporate greed.
As you will note, I do in fact advocate "some kind of presence" simply not that our US military (who should never have been there in the first place and should thus be brought home). The UN has more than half a century of nation building expertise and is fully capable (regardless of lame ass media BS back home working feverishly to convince the public otherwise) of administering the transitions and reconstruction far better than we.
Do be aware that arguments of "more time" no longer wash, when one considers that the monster Saddam himself took a mere 48 days following the devastation of Gulf War I to restore all electricity and water treatment to the entire country.
Here we are some 6 MONTHS!! later as the most powerful nation on earth and we still have not restored basic services.
So how constructive and magnanimous is OUR presence do you think???
You are obviously thinking in racial terms as you suggested that I was...Despite none of my posts even suggesting I thought in such a way.
Now both of those explicitly state my reasons for thinking Iraq would be unable to govern itself at the present time, the war. There is nothing in my posts that would suggest the racist shit you accused me of. The only reason you would have for posting such a thing would be if thats something you yourself believe, or more likely, you thought you would try and take a cheap, petty and deceitful jab at my character in order to discredit me.
Either way, it was you who brought that racist shit into this thread.
If you want to label me as right wing then go right ahead, if it makes you feel better I did support the war, I believed it was the right thing to do at the time. Do I support the current situation? No. I would support it if things were being done as promised. Maybe I was taken in by the propaganda, maybe I do have too much faith in our governments, maybe im too trusting..I have no problem admitting that.
Regardless of motivations, I still believe that Iraq is better off now than it was under Saddam. Things will get better, the US cant get away with messing around for much longer and eventually they will have to do some of the things they promised.
Anyway, i would thank you not to make up such lies about my views again
We are certainly concentrating on the oil infrastructure though
Given the level of technical and intellectual acumen within Iraqi society, the only things I consider to be an impediment to their restoration of self determinant governance is our continued presence (only aggravating and already negative situation), our sycophant puppets dominating the ruling council and dictating who in Iraqi society may or may not be party to the process and the predominance of our own US industries snapping up all the lucrative contracts that would otherwise have provided renewed enrichment and much needed employment for indigenous Iraqi firms.
So in that regard I did admittedly get over heated toward you, but my criticism was merely to highlight that regardless of the war torn nature of the country, Iraqis are fully capable of reconstructing their own society without our continued illegal intervention.
You didnt seek to highlight anything whatsoever, just to badmouth another poster..Something you seem to do on a very regular basis. Its sad because you do make very good points.
But in point of fact that was more a case of badmouthing whilst highlighting my point of contention about Iraqi capacity to reconstruct without our occupation or control.