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thousands demonstrate in the streets of baghdad.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
good to see the people getting to grips with democracy.
they were protesting about american presence in their country. ... and demanding a religous, islamic leadership. great stuff.
they were protesting about american presence in their country. ... and demanding a religous, islamic leadership. great stuff.
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http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html
Unfortunately it wont be the case. Bush and co can ill afford to allow any real universal sufferage when our vital business interests are so close to being sealed.
Would such a protest against the country's governors been allowed six months ago?
The American public has been continually gulled into believing this whole affair is one endless demonstration of goodness and mercy when it is patently obvious to international political analysts as well as those who can do more than wave a flag and bleat in unison to the tune of the spin doctors, that the fundamental prerogative of the Bush admin is economic and geo-political domination of the Middle East.
When i see Bush putting the screws on Israel in the same fashion for its threatening posture to its neighbours then the selfless benefactor argument might have a shade more credibility. But that won't happen and we all know it.
God Bless America!
We love the UK! Yes to Sharon! Down with Saddam!
:rolleyes:
A. Unless you are Heydrich, Greenie's comment wasn't a response to you.
B. I chide you for contantly slagging the US regradless of the thread. In this case it appears that the Iraqi are revelling in their freedom. So much so that they do not fear the US soldiers.
The rest of that quote just proving my point again, infact this one brings Israel into the equation too. And absolutely no comment about the fact that Iraqis are allowed to demonstrate freely for the first time in over a quater of a century.
Thank you.
-- Samuel Adams, January 9, 1769
We can stop them. We choose not to.
If you really believe that 5 Divisions of Coalition soldiers are unable to stop a few demonstrators after watching 4 Divisions overrun all of Iraq in 26 days, you are delusional.
No returns? Saddam is out of power. There will be NO WMDs in that country when we leave. There will be NO conceivable manner in which Iraq will be able to threaten its neighbors regardless of who is elected.
Despite what some on this board think, the United States has been fairly successful at encouraging countries to adopt democracy. The UN on the other hand has been a total and complete failure.
Why don't we just wait and see?
Oh, and Clandestine, Aladdin, etc?
I know you'll keep spinning because you refuse to admit you are wrong, but you've been proven wrong in the last 30 days, and you'll be proven wrong again and again over the next few years.
Bush and co have spent too much of our tax dollars on this gamble to allow for any true democracy to emerge. By or hook or by crook they will get their puppets in so they oil rights can be duly snatched up by those who will back their reelection campaigns. Increasing numbers of Iraqis themselves are recognising this and are not being silent on the matter.
I only pray they find a way of denying Washington the pie it already thinks is carved up and ready to serve. Now that would be justice!
And as for Washington's record on democracy... please! What history shows quite clearly is that we have been effective at overturning the democratic will of foreign populations when their elected leaders bore the wrong political affiliations, whilst supporting many regimes which were/are either dictatorial/autocratic, or of dubious democratic legitimacy.
there doesn't seem to have been any wmd when you arrived never mind when you leave. if there had been we wouldn't have had to witness forged documents, lies lies and lies and even a students work being lifted off the fucking internet you ...you ...
saddam was in no position to threaten anyone with satafuckinglights and inspectors and sanctions you ... you ...fucking ...
lets get something staight here ...i'm supposed to be the uneducated guy round here ok!
Why not? What's to stop us?
Worldwide opinion? Oh, yeah...that worked...
The militaries of Germany, France, Russia?
Russia is shitting their pants and the Generals are screaming. Iraq's military was a clone of theirs, and advised by Russian military personnel. And it got creamed. Slaughtered like a Turkey at Thanksgiving. Germany can't move its own troops and France is busy doing its own unilateral action in the Ivory Coast.
So what is stopping us from stopping those demonstrations? From imposing the rule that you and Clandestine seem so sure is intended?
Come on, start thinking. If you were correct, the US/UK forces wouldn't have taken embedded reporters. They wouldn't have let anyone see or report anything. They would have simply conquered, occupied and the Iraqi people would have liked it. Period.
But that isn't what happened, is it? Nor will it. Because those forces are actually there to do what they say. There will be an Iraqi government chosen by free elections. And American forces will leave. And it will be open to the world to see how the government is chosen, and that the choice is the Iraqis, not the Americans or the British.
You are delusional because you have no idea what the range of possibilities are, and you have never seen them implemented. Some of us have, in places like Vietnam after 1975, Cambodia, Laos, Cuba, Nicaragua under Daniel Ortega...
Just a reminder. Germany, Japan, South Korea, the Phillipines, Thailand, Turkey..
Those are the democracies that the US has helped establish. They aren't perfect...but they are better than what the UN has accomplished.
To do what you suggest would be tantamount to PR suicide Greeny and any lacky in Washington could tell you the same thing.
Why let them protest? Because the machinery carries on despite the protests and getting Chalabi into power has to be given at least a modicum of believability which opposition affords to the sham.
Similarly embedding reporters was and is the best way of keeping the military oversight on what they are and are not allowed to show. Some of the most revealing information came from those who were not embedded and how surprising that many of them met with a fatal end by coalition fire. Oops, they were caught in the crossfire...
Yes the Pentagon are the undisputed masters of lying to the public about their activities, and your protestations to the contrary are hardly credible when one looks back to other conflicts and other lies and coverups that have subsequently emerged.
As for your roster of supposed countries that owe their democratic legacy to the US, you are indeed either woefully ignorant or patently false. Germany for one had a its own legacy of democracy (not to mention being a developed western nation in its own right already) long before WWII. Perhaps you forget that the US was still an isolationist country when the League of Nations exhisted. Despite all its failings its foundation of multilateralism was rooted in democratic processes.
Turkey owes its somewhat questionable democratic development to Ataturk, not the US. Best go back and read the non military issued history books.
If our Foreign policy demonstrates anything with certain clarity its how often Washington has undermined democracies in order to ensure that the great red menace was kept at bay. The bush doctrine will simply exchange "terrorist" for "communist" and the geo-political manipulation policy will carry on apace.