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So, drugs.
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Quite possibly the most selfish and self destructive thing you can do. I detest them whole-heartedly.
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No wait, judging by this thread, you don't.
compared with alcohol, nicotine, overeating, lack of exercise, riding motorbikes, it's remarkably safe and not at all selfish.
you detest them...your reason for this is based on...????????????
Well i'm off out with a few hundred other "selfish" people for a better time than you could even dream of.
do you walk along pavements? thats self destructive, theres more chance of getting killed by walking along a pavement and getting knocked down by a car than there is of dying from smoking cannabis or taking LSD.
which reminds me... smoking kills, someone got run over by a benson and hedges truck.
Here here!
Down with that sort of thing at once!
I'll just stick to cigarettes and alcohol.
Now i'm no judgemental person...i dont throw out a statement like that and not know the facts. Of course alcohol has a lot of the same effects. However i've been around people who are wasted and feel more unsafe around them than i do a person who is drunk. If a scene occurs in front of a drunkard, the chances are that they can sober up very quickly, however a person wasted on drugs doesnt.
You think your having the time of your life, but really everybody who you consider to be friends, they dont care about you, their just in it for that good time, for that brilliant feeling that undeniably drugs does bring. The whole scene is a selfish one, as my ex drugs addict friends tell me 'when your on drugs, no-one cares about you, everyones just in it for the good times'. My best mate was in the scene for years...shes seen 7 of her friends die. Yes not all of those has been directly because of the drug, but maybe falling of phone masts they have climbed while on drugs.
Yes alsohol is bad, but you can limit that, you can drink say 4 bottles and be tipsy enough to feel good, and stop, you take one E or so much coke, and you cant control the effects. The take over you.
Ok the arguemnt of walking down the street and buses and things. Bullshit. If i walk down the street my eyes are open, if i cross the street i look before i cross. Thats my protection. I just dont see why anybody would take something, knowing they could die that night. So for you all. as much as you give me facts of how one thing is more dangerous and alcohol does the same thing...why are you trying to justify it to yourselves.
I'm not looking to stop people doing drugs or preach...i just wish for once people who did drugs would be honest to others and to themselves and say yes, drugs are dangerous, i could die from taking them directly or indirectly, but i'm willing to take that chance for a few hours of a good time.
Lol sorry but thats pathetic. I understood most other peoples comments and didnt mind justifying my beliefs in relation to questions but that comment is just silly. You really portrayed your age there.
I have taken drugs in the past and probably will do in the future, I know full well that they are dangerous and have never denied it, still think it's incredibly unlikely that I will die from having a spliff (no deaths from cannabis EVER apart from maybe lung cancer which comes from the tobacco I think) or taking the odd E (yes so people have died taking E- in the single figures each year). A very very tiny risk, and many are willing to take it.
Not everyone who takes drugs becomes a loser or a junkie as you seem to presume, there are milloins of successful people who manage to take drugs recreationally and in a *relatively* safe and controlled way whilst continuing with their normal lives, working, being part of a family etc.
My point is, there's a big difference between a heroin addict and someone who dabbles a bit on the weekend.
Self control, some people have it, some don't. Some people in my opinion have addictive personalities and thus one drug leads to another. Many more are capable of knowing their limits.
they don't loose control and go beating people up, killing, stealing, staying in bed for a month. a lot of writers, painters designers and even poloticians and policemen take drugs.
a huge number in our armed forces also use them.
you have NO knowledge at all of this subject apart from the usual scare stories.
drugs have been taken since the dawn of time with very few problems. it's only in recent history that it has become a crime. making the smoking or ingesting something of your choice criminal is a very dodgy way of policing people. being ilegal causes more problems than the actual using of drugs. at this moment i am under the influence of some very strong cannabis...can you tell?
i for one believe very strongly, from personal experience that the current drug laws, mostly need sweeping away. if society could move from alcohol to cannabis more, your world would be a safer place. i am not a cabbage who is sat here giggling that i want my drugs man! i am in the forefront of pushing for a change in the law. moreso than i'm willing to tell you about here. more so than whspliff in fact. what i will tell you is i am one of a number of british cannabis farmers who are pushing the boundaries in blatantly declaring ourselves to be farming more and more british soil to produce top quality domestic cannabis. we are breaking the law. the law know who we are. when the time is right for publicity, WE the farmers will decide. not the police or the courts or the government. they would fail miserably at the moment and they know it. were not mad or damaged.
get facts.
This is what I meant by Eve generalising.
You can't seem to distinguish between people who take the odd joint, or who inject every day.
As for your point about not acknowledging that drugs are bad for your health, and if you abuse them they can be fatal, I didn't even think I had to state this, as I thought it obvious to you that I already knew this before trying drugs.
Though in saying that, as PussyKatty already said, the dangers of dying from cannabis, or Ecstacy is far lower than from alcohol or tobacco.
As for the Ecstacy related deaths, there is nearly always a preventable reason for it, ie not drinking enough water. I remember at one point the government started a drugs campaign, stating that if you're going to take Ecstacy, make sure you drink plenty of water. People didn't know how much, drank too much, and died. This was the cause of deah for Leah Betts.
Now, you say that, but again, you go on to generalise, and judge every drug user, without actually knowing anything about their specific circumstances.
I have many friends, some who use drugs, and some who don't. We don't use drugs every time we go out, but when we do, we stick together, when we don't, we do the same. They aren't 'just in it for a good time'.
But what if I take just enoug Ecstacy or cocaine to feel good, and then stop, but remain in control? That statement makes out as if alcohol users posess self-control, whereas drug users do not?
Sorry to disprove yet another part of your arguement, but I was at a club the other night, got to the 'tipsy enough to feel good' stage, weent to the toilet, and snorted some cocaine. Ocassionally, after another drink or so, I'd go back to the toilet, and snort some more. Tell me then, why was it I was in perfect control, and knew what I was doing? Why was I the one who had to tell some of my friends, my non-drug using friends at that, that they'd got to the wrecked stage, and if they weren't careful they'd get thrown out? Why was it that when we got outside, I was the inital one to intervene in a somewhat heated arguement, that could have got out of hand, between two of my, again, non-drug using friends, and three other guys?
If I take Ecstacy, I be sure to keep myself fully hydrated, buy the drug from people I know and trust, and don't get drunk. That's my protection. I just don't see why anybody would walk down the street, when you know you could die doing so.
See where we're coming from? Oh, and seeing as the chances from dying from walking down the street are higher than from taking Ecstacy, why should I give a second thought as to doing it, when I'm sure you don't while walking down the street.
? i'm 33.
I'm with the company that I started with at 18. Worked my way up the ladder and am now a manager of my own branch, good money, excellent company car.
Last night I was out with my girlfriend of 4 years, we take a couple of e's, have a bit of coke and a few joints when we get home before fantastic sex.
90% of my mates don't do any drugs although 95% have tried them. They didn't agree with them so left them alone. No-one judges anyone as to whether you should or should not take drugs. It's simply no big deal, just personal choice.
You seem to pigeon hole us all as shivering in the corner of a dank room, waiting for our giro's to come so we can get a fix. In the same way as you see i'm from Liverpool so I must be a robbing get. We're just normal, mainstream people although I now feel as though I have a better understanding of life than before I took (non legal) drugs.
Erm. Yeah. Ok then.
Thanks kiezo and pussykatty for your insights, i did actually enjoy reading a constructed opinion. Yeep i never claimed to know it all, never done them so i dont have that particular stance.
I know full well drugs is wide, theres your junkies, casual users and those who just smoke weed. Sorry if i seemed like i was pigeonholing, i actually dont see it that way. But my opinion stands, i dont see why anybody would do them in the first place. If you tried them because of personal choice, because of personal knowledge then fine...but i think if most people are honest it was peer pressure. After all how many users actually tried it first on their own? The majority is through peer pressure and this is very very weak. I pity those who do it for that reason.
I do not agree with it being legalised. What next? Teachers stoned while the children are on their break...mothers openly snorting in front of their children? I agree that as it is now it is seen as dirty and it would be a safer recreation if it were legalised but there are too many issues to just say something subjectively on that front.
When someone gives me the details of why they do drugs, like my friends have, it makes me understand more and even sympathise in some cases, but when you get people like above, just saying things defensively and agressively, then i have to think that they dont really have a clue or the facts themselves...those are the kind of people who really are a worry.
Still i value my life too much, have to much ambition and intellect, to put that in danger, or to waste money, on drugs.
Nobody has ever pressured me to try drugs, it has always been my own decision and I would not mix with people who pressure me to try things.
Your points about teachers being stoned are silly, after all alcohol is legal yet you don't get teachers in school drunk. Well ok I'm sure you do, but they would be dealt with for doing this!
2 very different things.
So i read recently (doesnt mean its true, just using it to establish a point!) that 56% of crime is drugs related. Would legalising it prevent this?
My point was just that tho PussyKatty...where DO we draw the line?
Drugs is much the same as smoking..why even start in the first place? So to those that do drugs..tell me..do you want to stop? And why did you start? And when or if, do you think you will stop?
I do now see the difference more between someone taking an E at weekend, and injecting heroin with no way out. Very recreational use i dont have so much of a problem with because rightly so..i drink..but for those who need it, or dont think they can have a good time without it, their just being completely detrimental to themselves.
why did you start drinking?
when america made alcohol ilegal in the 1920's, it became exciting to go to "speakeasys" ilegal clubs. women started drinking on thier own and in ever increasing numbers when it became ilegal. becuase in our flawed minds the forbidden is nearly always aluring. go back to the old story of adam and eve.
you mentioned peer pressure. sure must be that way for many i suppose. for many it's curiosity. for me it was music. i've been listening to and enjoying all kinds of music since i had ears.
in the 60's along came people like bob dylan and john lennon and hundreds of others like them, singing political and spiritual stuff.
asking important questions about life in a new and popular way.
these same people were trying to bring a halt to the vietnam war. they were also singing about the delights of cannabis and l.s.d.
thats what fired my curiosity. yes i have had problems with harder drugs. stopped taking them many years ago, problem dealt with.
I honestly started because I got bored with getting pissed, listening to shit music in shit clubs and getting into shit fights.
And I was 29 when I did, i've no plans to stop doing anything. When I was 16 I was into scooters, I never planned to stop I just did, when I was in my early 20's I was into Stone Roses etc. I didn't think i'd ever like any other music but I do now. You just change and develop as you go.
picture this little bit of reality.
a man has invested one million pounds in importing a ship full of heroin into England, where it will net him twenty million in returns.
criminal but very good investment. he's already done it a number of times. i phone him to tell him that the english have legalized heroin. if your an addict you get your heroin on prescription.
clean pure heroin. he now has on his hands a ship full of dust. worthless dust. because who is going to buy his inferior product when theres good clean heroin available with no hassle.
the way he saves the day is to turn his ship toward france where it is still ilegal. he'll still make his twenty millions...as long as it stays ilegal.
can't remember the figure but i think it's 20 billion a yr that is spent on ilegal drugs, anualy in the uk. that is a phenomina;l ammount of money to be putting in the hands of crooks. yoiu are elevating them to a position of power and influence beyond the wildest imaginings of kings and princes. that doesn't make sense to me. the drug war has been fought for nearly 40yrs and has produced what....more and more and more and more drugs at ever cheaper prices. more and more people using them. how to stop it. legalise and control it. you cannot fight it as the last 40yrs has shown. so get your act together and cvontrol it. demand would slowly go down for drugs such as heroin, simply becuase this ilusion of glamour would have been removed and replaced with..."wheres eve?" oh she's gone to get her medication. oh she's on medication? doesnt sound half as exciting and aluring does it.
In this respect, drugs are different than smoking. Put basically, smoking does nothing for me, drugs do.
As some of my friends realised the other night, I'm the only person they've ever met that takes Class A's but doesn't smoke. Weird, eh?
As for the questions, curiosity is probably the best way to describe why I started, mixed with a desire to try new things.
No, I don't want to stop. I enjoy doing it, so why would I? Do you want to stop watching TV?
I honestly don't know when I'll stop. If they start affecting my health or my life, I'll stop, but other than that I don't see any reason to.
I have no surefire way although i dont drink alone, in the house, or in the face of stress/hurt/depression, so hopefully alcoholism is something that will escape me. I didnt start until recently...why? It happened by accident. I was always scared of getting drunk as i didnt like the thought of being out of control, however i did get drunk accidently and found i liked the inhibitionless state it gave me.
I totally agree with your views on legalisation and the effect it would have on those at the top of the drugs 'world'. I have always felt that illegality makes drugs seem more alluring but didnt believe it was reason enough to back the legalisation debate.
What about those who take drugs heavily though? People who can not gets jobs because of the state their in? Their giving nothing to society yet what their doing is legal?
I guess i dont want this to turn into a legality debate...Would you all stop if you had children?
You're still missing the point Eve, it's not some dark sordid world where we're all spotty round the mouth, sniffing and shivering un-controllably.
I have 2 wonderful children 8 & 10. I'm divorced (not drug related before you start on that 1!) and see them every weekend and as much as possible during the week, involved with there school and go on holiday with them every year.
Will you stop drinking if you have kids?
i have five kids and grandchildren. i dont want my grandchildren to face the drug situation as it now stands. i want to help to change it...hopfully for the better.
in the 60's heroin was available freely on prescription. europe had a growing drug problem. america had a huge one. the u.k had no hard drugs problem until...a new government came to power and against the advice of ALL, the experts, stopped prescribing. the floodgates opened for organised crime and this is why we are now in the situation were in. remeber all through the 18th and 19th centuries, opium and cannais were legal. in victorian england the entire admiralty and most of the government were opium addicts. yes addicts. the story of sherlock holmes has englands most famous detective using morphine to relax and cocaine to stimulate his mind. this was a reflection of the real proffesionals of the day. the workers could not afford opium but could go to the chemist and purchase laudanum...opium disslolved in alcohol...very nice it was too.
the use of soft and hard drugs as the norm was not at all frowned on. in those conditions we built the worlds railways etc.
it wasn't a problem. yes some people would have a problem. there will always be addictive people, drugs, anorexia, bulimia gambling etc. queen victoria used cannabis and opium. the big drug companies hadn't arrived on the scene with thier chemical magic with all it's unpleasant side effects.
if YOU were addicted to heroin and were getting honest heroin from the chemist for free because of your "condition"...you would be studying working whatever. as it stands now an addict has to worry about his next fix, the money for the next fix etc. if these pressing things were not your priority you would soon realise that you had a lot of spare time on your hands and a desire to use that time.
addicts dont sit slummped in a corner for long. they have to be resourcful. they have to earn hundreds of pounds a day. by any means for thier medical condition. addicts are very busy people.
imagine if the majority of heroin addicts were given no more excuse or reason to commit crime. the jails would be near empty and your cd player and purse would be a lot safer. the problem for society would be almost swept away over night. addiction in itself does the addict no harm. i believe fewer and fewer people would be drawn to this drug. those who want to buy pot would not keep bumping into heroin either.
The percentage of people who -abuse- drugs compared of the total number of people who use drugs recreationally is very very very small.
Recreational drug users don't use drugs alone or to escape pain or depression.
Unless you are a recreational user I don't think you have any knowlage what-so-ever to comment on their behalf.
Those people you talk of, the one who has lost 7 friends .. I think they were quite far from being recreational users.
The reason is the same as with people who get drunk every weekend, it's to loosen their inhibits and well .. just spice up the night-on-the-town.
Now, I don't smoke (neither tobacco nor cannabis) I don't drink, but I do however use Extacy (1-3 weeks per month) and Speed and Coke quite seldom .. but still.
I have -never- in my entire life been involved in a fight, the one occasion were I almost got into a fight however was when both myself and the other guy were drunk.
I am 20 years old, I've been using drugs for about 10 months, never alone, never on a weekday (only on weekends) never bought on credit. And have been quite active in harm reduction where I live.
Please, don't say your not judgemental, all your post contradicts that statement.
And those -facts- you speak of .. I'm sorry, where have you gathered them from ?
Morrocan roll, i do totally agree with your arguments. You are actually, quite right.
I am not judgemental. If i was judgemental i would disregard my friends for their pasts, i would not listen, and i would call you all the names under the sun for doing something i dont endeavour to take part in. I dont do that.
Probably not, although statistically there is more chance of you croaking through alcohol than me off an E.