Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options

Is there a proven link between Iraq and Al Qaeda?

2»

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Further, if we go by your view, then the admitted interest of the Bush administration (as initially claimed by Ari Fleischer, Bush's spokesman) and those that think like them would be an admission of advocacy for the use of terrorism to achieve our ends in Iraq.

    Commanders in Chief are military targets. Pay attention.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Heads of state are civil entities first and foremost. If they are ascribed the role of CIC it is secondary to the civil function. Presidents are elected by the people not the military. Dictators come to power by political or military coup d'etat. So let's look at Saddam in his early years.

    Was he ever a senior military leader? NO.

    How did he come to power? It was his cousin, Ahmad Hassan al-Bakr who took control in a political coup d'etat in 1968. Hussein was installed as one of his political "lieutenants" (to use the term in its non-military sense).

    In 1979, Saddam ousted his cousin and took control of government. He has secured his power base ever since through routine political purges.

    Now at no time can Saddam be said to have been a military leader in any official sense beyond that of the default state control of all aspects of Iraqi society.

    So quite frankly, its once again a lame use of semantics and still does not fit into the definition of "terrorist" which even your taskmasters, the DoD, apply.

    BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Next contestant!:lol:
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Heads of state are civil entities first and foremost. If they are ascribed the role of CIC it is secondary to the civil function. Presidents are elected by the people not the military. Dictators come to power by political or military coup d'etat. So let's look at Saddam in his early years.

    Was he ever a senior military leader? NO.

    How did he come to power? It was his cousin, Ahmad Hassan al-Bakr who took control in a political coup d'etat in 1968. Hussein was installed as one of his political "lieutenants" (to use the term in its non-military sense).

    In 1979, Saddam ousted his cousin and took control of government. He has secured his power base ever since through routine political purges.

    Now at no time can Saddam be said to have been a military leader in any official sense beyond that of the default state control of all aspects of Iraqi society.

    So quite frankly, its once again a lame use of semantics and still does not fit into the definition of "terrorist" which even your taskmasters, the DoD, apply.

    BUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Next contestant!:lol:

    You can argue all you want, it doesn't make you correct. I assume you would argue that attempts to assassinate Hitler would also be terrorism? After all, Hitler's military experience is about equal to Saddam's. And like Saddam, he became the chief of the military, and thereby a valid target...right down to wearing a uniform. :p
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, Greenhat, you definitely show a lack of comprehension here.

    YOUR contention was that assassinations or attempts thereof are considered terrorism, my point and that of several others (repeatedly i might add) is that assassination is not classifiable as terrorism. It is "assassination"... completely different beast (as also shown by the DoD's own definition of terrorism).

    Your insistence on demonstrating how far you can go to avoid the train of the discussion (and obviously forgetting your own claims)in order to avoid dealing with the weakness of your position is singularly astounding. Its also a bad reflection on the mental calibre of those our military chooses to be officers! :rolleyes:
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    No, Greenhat, you definitely show a lack of comprehension here.

    YOUR contention was that assassinations or attempts thereof are considered terrorism, my point and that of several others (repeatedly i might add) is that assassination is not classifiable as terrorism. It is "assassination"... completely different beast (as also shown by the DoD's own definition of terrorism).

    Your insistence on demonstrating how far you can go to avoid the train of the discussion (and obviously forgetting your own claims)in order to avoid dealing with the weakness of your position is singularly astounding. Its also a bad reflection on the mental calibre of those our military chooses to be officers! :rolleyes:

    George Bush was not the leader of anything when Saddam ordered him attacked, just a civilian going about his business. I suggest you do a little reading on the history of assassination before you are so quick to characterize it. Or maybe you don't feel that WWI qualifies as "terror"?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I realise that Bushie Sr. was a civilian, which only makes an assassination atempt comensurate with a murder charge, still not terrorism.

    And in your tyical fashion you bring in a link to something which has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Yeah, so Iraq can make weapons that penetrate US protective gear. So can the US.

    Whatever bearing that has in relation to your equating "assassination attempts" to "terrorism" (especially when its not even on a current public figure) would boggle even Dubyah i've no doubt. Guess you choose to ignore the definition of terrorism held by the DoD. :rolleyes:

    You are stubborn i'll give you that, even though you only continue to demonstrate your inability to make a consistent and cogent argument. But then since we know you know everything and can never be wrong, keep right on digging. At least its amusing! :lol:
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    I realise that Bushie Sr. was a civilian, which only makes an assassination atempt comensurate with a murder charge, still not terrorism.

    Suggest you do a little research, as you are demonstrating your ignorance once again.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ahh this should be good... and what pray tell would you have me research eh? perhaps we should research back a few pages to see whom it was who first suggested "assassination" equals "terrorism". Surely you arent so feeble as to have forgotten that already, or are you? :rolleyes:

    Or perhaps we should research how your link to another nice WMD story fits into this conversation.

    Just admit youve undermined your own credibility on this and like a good servant of the DoD, pay attention to the definition that they have established instead of vainly attempting to defend one based on your personal opinion.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    I realise that Bushie Sr. was a civilian, which only makes an assassination atempt comensurate with a murder charge, still not terrorism.

    If John Gotti ordered someone killed, it would be more than a murder charge, for a Head of State ordering a citizen of another country killed...

    Do the research, crack the lawbooks. C'mon, must be lots of stuff to look at in Brussels.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well lets see, Andreotti (whilst Prime Minister of Italy) ordered an Italian journalist killed and what was he charged with and sentenced to 24 years in prison for, why, surprise surprise..... murder and conspiracy to murder. Not terrorism!

    Just admit you are wrong Greenhat, and save yourself continued embarrassment. Or do officers no longer have the honour to admit when they are wrong? ;)
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given that Osama bin Laden wanted to start a Jihad to free Kuwait back in 1990 from Iraqi occupation using his Al Quaeda forces, a link between Iraq and Al Quaeda seems highly unlikely. OK so they both hate Israel and the United States but I don't think that either would trust each other enough to become allies. Osama bin Laden is also an Islamic fundamentalist and wouldn't trust someone like Saddam who fought a war against an fundamentalist Islamic state Iran during the 1980s.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Clandestine
    Well lets see, Andreotti (whilst Prime Minister of Italy) ordered an Italian journalist killed and what was he charged with and sentenced to 24 years in prison for, why, surprise surprise..... murder and conspiracy to murder. Not terrorism!

    An Italian Prime Minister orders the murder of an Italian subject...

    Not exactly ordering the execution of another nation's citizens, is it?

    Pay attention.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Harlequin
    Given that Osama bin Laden wanted to start a Jihad to free Kuwait back in 1990 from Iraqi occupation using his Al Quaeda forces, a link between Iraq and Al Quaeda seems highly unlikely. OK so they both hate Israel and the United States but I don't think that either would trust each other enough to become allies. Osama bin Laden is also an Islamic fundamentalist and wouldn't trust someone like Saddam who fought a war against an fundamentalist Islamic state Iran during the 1980s.

    "THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND"

    Wonder what part of the world that particular saying originates in?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    oh such a ready answer for everything Greenhat. Anything to avoid having to face the fact that you are so full of it its stinking up the boards at this point.

    First a government figures using assassination for political ends are terrorists, then when it is shown that the killing (or attempt thereof) of one individual - according to that previous premise of yours - is not in line with the definition of terrorism, it's now got to be someone else's citizen that is murdered. Nevermind that you already pulled the rug out from under your own feet with your inconsistencies and constant reversals.

    Give it up Greenhat. you clearly have no ground left to stand on. Your credibility rating has finally reached nil!
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Greenhat
    "THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY IS MY FRIEND"

    Wonder what part of the world that particular saying originates in?
    This is not true in all cases. Osama bin Laden will turn on Saddam as soon as America is no longer a threat to the Islamic world and Saddam knows that as anyone who is not a friend of the muslim world bin Laden considers a potential enemy. He knows that Osama bin Laden is a lose cannon so would think twice before making him an ally. Osama bin Laden would also far more likely choose Iran as an ally which is much closer to his ideology than Iraq.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I suppose the IDF must be terrorising the inhabitants of the West Bank then, and clearly, as GL has opined, it isn't working...
Sign In or Register to comment.