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Comments
Hey everyone, just to say, thank you for your responses. I know it may sounds futile when we say this, but truly we're grateful for your honesty, and we can hear this is really, really hard and frustrating. We're so dedicated to continuing to support each of you to the very best of our abilities as a staff team. We recognise this Community means a huge amount to you - who have built and shaped it!
Something has just popped into my head again that i think I’ve asked before but it either wasn’t answered or I can’t remember the answer.
When someone does the selfie age verification process, what will that look like? Will it just say verified, will it give an age category (child, teen, adult), an age bracket (21-25, 26+) or will it give us the exact age it thinks we are? I ask because I’m 23 and my DOB on my profile says so, but what if the age verification says I’m a different age to what the date of birth says, if it thinks I’m 22 or 24 for example. Or what what if it thinks I’m 26, does it then block me? Obviously if someone does an ID it would be accurate but what if they don’t have one and are forced to rely on selfie and it’s not accurate. Could have implications for the aging out process if it thinks someone is older than they are.
ETA: plus, if it just says adult, how does that help to know what age of adult that person is? They could be 18 or 98, both those ages fall under adult.
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I don't see this as a win or saving the platform, if the platform loses half it's members and the things that made it what it is in the process. It's losing the 1:1 conversations people have through delays. It forces people to wait an hour at best to have there posts go up and a further hour at best for a reply when i know for a fact i've responded to crisis posts on here, within minutes. It's losing it's support threads which are by far my favourite support space. It's losing it's night time venting spaces and support spaces, as well as the "anonymity" of it's users being thrown out the window, by what is in my opinion, a now questionable age verification system, given recent news about Yoti's data misuse fine. It's not saving the platform or keeping it supportive, it's causing it to become less supportive.
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Sure, under online safety act rules, things are extreme and vaguely worded, and things like age verification is mandated, but there are alternatives to things like manual pre-moderation and closing boards at nights. And there's no need to not be open about everything. Like the reason for DM's being turned of now changing from theoretical concerns as was the given reason, to claimed actual inappropriate use as the new reason, something that wasn't mentioned last year in that thread. It's the same for a great deal changing.
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I do want to say though, I know the mods are doing there best and I really do appreciate it. None of these changes are down to any of you, and I know you'll all try and be as supportive as you can, but the changes are just too extreme for me.
Hi all - we have tried to compile all the answers to the questions asked, and they are split into spoilers for ease of reading
Age Verification
We wanted to give you a quick update on the intended implementation of the age-verification feature. As you are aware, we had planned for this to become available from today, however based on some new information shared here and widely in the news media, we have decided to take some time to seek legal advice and to make sure we've fully understood the legal issues before moving forward. We're grateful for your comments about this latest issue - as always, these are welcome and appreciated.
We're hoping to be in a position to let you know of our decision later this week. Age verification is a legal requirement and we want to make sure that we have the best and fairest process in place.
The Mix merged with MHI in 2024, and since this time there have been many changes that the organisation has had to keep up with. We have taken our time to communicate planned changes, to work through technical limitations, and to answer as many questions as we can. Whilst we would like to be able to continue answering questions, we also have a duty to bring in the changes in a timely manner, and so managing this timeline is something we continue to work hard on.
We welcome feedback and appreciate your understanding when changes need to be made.
Yoti messaging
After a user completes the facial scan with Yoti, Yoti will display messaging on screen that lets the user know that the scan is being analysed and then deleted. The system will then either let the user through to the boards, or advise you that the scan has determined that they are outside of the 13-25 age bracket - in which case it will prompt them to scan a QR code so that they can set up a digital ID if they chose to which can then be used to access the boards.
DMs
At the time of the removal of the DM feature, we chose not to share the point regarding inappropriate use of the feature, so as not to create anxiety and nervousness with some users who had reported these occurrences. We feel enough time has passed now that this would not be linked to anyone in particular. Fundamentally though, the main reason for removing the feature remains the same - trying to ensure better user safety.
Overnight posting
We have met with other organisations to understand how overnight posting is managed and we have reviewed our own internal data and stats, and based on this we have made the decision to not allow posts to be made overnight.
All organisations will take a view on how best to ensure the safety of its users, and this is the approach we have decided to take.
It is important that a Young Person in crisis isn't left in a position where they have posted seeking help during a period where we are unable to read and respond. Anyone at risk of crisis is encouraged to contact SHOUT overnight so that they receive the most appropriate support, and all other users can of course come back to post messages and receive Peer support during the day during the moderated hours.
Overnight, users can still log in and read messages already on the boards, but the option to post a new message won't be there.
Moderation of messages:
Moderators will let users know when a message can't be approved, and wherever possible, we will edit messages where needed so that they can be approved.
Anyone posting in crisis would receive a DM from staff and what would happen with their post would depend on what the post contained.
Delays in messages being approved:
As we've mentioned previously, we've brought in new team members to help with the moderation of messages and we are hopeful that there will not be any significant delays to approving messages.
As this is a new process for us too, it may take us some time to get used to, so we ask that you be patient and bear with us as we get to grips with it all.
Chat room service:
As our chat room service is run by a different provider and uses different technology to the boards, we are still reviewing how safety on this service can be improved.
This means that these changes will not affect chat room usage at the moment.
Accessibility issues:
Vanilla, the provider of the Discussion Boards, continues to look into any reported issues that may affect a users accessibility, and as soon as they provide us with further updates, we will of course share these with you.
We have conducted many premoderation tests over the last 6 months, and based on this and on our many conversations with Vanilla, we know that premoderation does not work in a manageable way on the old look boards.
We recommend that users read the Community Guidelines that sets out The Mix's expectations around using the Community. We currently do not have a User Guide for the boards, but we can look into creating one if this is something that users would find useful. Yoti of course will have their own Q&As specific to age verification that users can also refer to and Yoti can be contacted regarding any issues with the Age Verification check.
Support threads
If it is possible to effectively run support threads alongside premoderating all messages, we will definitely do so. We understand this is an important channel of support that we do not wish to lose if we don't have to, and we will try to run a Support Chat in their place each week where we can if threads don't work with the premoderation
16 - 25? I thought the mix is for 13 - 25?
Thank you for pointing that out Chloe, that was a mistype and has been corrected now!
I just wanted to ask so I can remind myself to do so, when do we need to complete the yoti face ID by?. I don't go on here as much to be fair but I want to double check.
Hi @Amy22, thank you for your question! We will be providing the community with the dates for age verification as soon as we know, please keep an eye on the boards as all information will be updated here as soon as we have it. We just want to make sure that we have the best and fairest process in place for you all before sharing dates.
Two questions off the back of this update:
Is pre moderation still coming in on 30th March? Or is it a case of the age verification and pre moderation need to come in at the same time?
Also, I’m a bit confused by the code thing. I might be being dumb here, but if you have to scan a code, how are you meant to do that on the device you are currently using? Say you’re doing the check on your phone but it thinks you’re outside of the bracket, how are you then meant to scan the code with that same phone to get through to the digital ID thing?
Hey Elle, we've just double checked. If using your phone to access boards, they will be presented with a button to click instead of a QR code. We are still planning for premoderation and the new boards hours to come into effect from the 30th, regardless of whether our age verification feature is live or not, as they are two separate things from each other! I hope this makes a bit more sense and thank you for your questions!
@Leyla thank you, good to know - i genuinely thought i was just being dumb in thinking how could you scan a code if you were on the device you would use to scan said code
When is this going to happen? We don`t want to be shut off the boards because the YOTI thing isn`t being started in time for 30th March.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
@Leyla have yous started the age verification option yet because orginal post says it starts 23rd
That is actually quite clever haha. And sadly it`s the truth.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
I do have 1 question, where has the mix said at best it will take a hour for approvals?
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Because unless the mix has stated as such you are stated a opinion as a fact which is miss information and damaging
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If after a week of pre moderation this comment was to be made and on average it did take a hour then it would be fact however this side it is purely personal opinion stated as a fact
@BensonE in a general chat 😂. It was said they are hopeful to get posts approved in that time span.
@BensonE The claim it is misinformation is also wrong, because it was stated in a chatwee session by staff. If you want sources for everything else, you are more than free to ask.
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Yoti's fine for breaking article 9, 7 and 5.1(e) of the GDPR is here as well: Spain’s AEPD fines Yoti $1.1M for biometric data handling violations | Biometric Update
The way you corrected my spelling felt sarcastic, I'd really appreciate more understanding with my disability which affects my ability with spelling.
can we just not argue :/ the thread will jus get closed
✨ 𝒯ℋℐ𝒮 ℐ𝒮 ℳℰ ✨
Benson is just trying to defend himself and what he`s saying is genuine and not trying to be provocative.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
@BensonE correcting spelling is not a breach of the equality act, it is a matter of fact. And there was no sarcasm involved. I myself am being diagnosed with ASD and do not understand sarcasm well. A disability does not change the fact that it was incorrect spelling and grammar and I politely corrected the spelling.
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Secondly, the equality act is about harassment, or less favourable treatment. Trying to weaponize it is an awful thing to do, and diminishes real violations of that act.
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You accusing me falsely of a violation of the equality act has caused me great anxiety, which is in of itself a potential violation of the malicious communications act. I need not remind you of your own jokes about disabilities in chat that was raised by numerous individual a short while ago, so let's not go there.
Hey everyone, we understand that tensions are high right now, but please can we keep this thread for discussion on the community updates only and avoid any confrontation - thanks
@Dancer correcting spelling and replying to questions raised to me and direct accusations of misinformation is not provocative. If that falls under provocation, then your previous personal attacks constitute far worse.
I was trying to say that Benson wasn't trying to provoke anyone with his comments to you. Sometimes you need to read things twice.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
@Verity of course. I just answered the questions that were directed at me about these changes, and offered my sources when asked.
I answered his questions about my sources when he claimed i was spreading misinformation, and I did not insult, harass or berate anybody, and for simply pointing out his spelling mistake, I was directly accused defamatorily of breaching the equality act. That is straight up trying to provoke a reaction @Dancer and a personal attack and there was zero need for it. I want to keep this thread for the changes, so let's leave it here.
Thinking about these changes logically…if support threads are being stopped does this mean that threads like the general chat, counting thread, vent threads etc. (So the ongoing threads or threads that are more back and forward) are also going to be stopped due to the delays in the posts and new comments being approved?
@ @Chloe i think someone told me the other day that the venting threads will stay, but i had never considered the counting thread and general chit chat. Less so nowadays but back when general chat thread was new it could be quite fast moving, and this basically puts a permanent end to any fast moving conversation, which is a real shame.
The image pretty much sums it up. I've not been active in the community for long but have seen all the changes happen in the past year or so and how they've affected the community. I want to try and be receptive towards the upcoming changes, but they seem to have more cons than pros. The age verification is a big dealbreaker for me, so I plan to be active as much as I can until it's implemented.
“Only when the last tree has died and the last river has been poisoned and the last fish has been caught will we realise we cannot eat money.”
Is there any update yet on the age verification stuff? @TheMix
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous