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Age Verification - Upcoming Change
TheMix
Posts: 3,176 Boards Guru
Hey everyone,
As you’re probably aware last week we introduced Geo-Fencing which checks if a user is in the UK. Here’s our post about it.
.Thank you so much for any questions you've submitted to that thread and please do keep them coming.
So what's happening with age verification?
As you know, The Mix provides support for young people aged 13-25 living in the UK. For The Mix to be compliant, we have a legal requirement to verify the location and age of young people using our online services.
By April, therefore, we’re aiming to introduce Age Verification too. We don’t have a date confirmed yet, but once we do we’ll be sure to let you know (it basically depends on the tech stuff).
How will this affect me?
So, here’s what we can share with you now:
> This will only affect new Discussion Board users for the time being, and will not affect anyone who already has an account.
> When applying to join Community Discussiuon Boards, new users will be asked to visit an external site where they will take a photo of themselves and/or of their ID (we still need to confirm the ID option!).
> The image will then be used to estimate the age of the person by being analysed by a trained algorithm. The image will also be checked to make sure it is a real person.
> This estimated age will be securely sent to our Discussion Boards, saved to their user account, and will only be seen by our internal team. No images are stored, shared, or used for any other purpose than estimating the age.
> Once the age has been estimated, the image is deleted.
> This means we can check if the user’s estimated age matches the date of birth entered into the sign up form.
Why is this happening?
We’re aware this is a pretty big change, and we do have some time before it’ll go live to discuss how you feel about it. The reason we’re making these changes is because we continuously review and improve our services. We also update our policies and follow updated legislations.
We have a legal duty to implement this, but we also want to be able to offer you reassurance and answer any questions you may have.
How can I ask questions about this or give feedback?
You can share your thoughts and ask questions here below, DM us, or by email community@themix.org.uk. We're here to support you.
As you’re probably aware last week we introduced Geo-Fencing which checks if a user is in the UK. Here’s our post about it.
.Thank you so much for any questions you've submitted to that thread and please do keep them coming.
So what's happening with age verification?
As you know, The Mix provides support for young people aged 13-25 living in the UK. For The Mix to be compliant, we have a legal requirement to verify the location and age of young people using our online services.
By April, therefore, we’re aiming to introduce Age Verification too. We don’t have a date confirmed yet, but once we do we’ll be sure to let you know (it basically depends on the tech stuff).
How will this affect me?
So, here’s what we can share with you now:
> This will only affect new Discussion Board users for the time being, and will not affect anyone who already has an account.
> When applying to join Community Discussiuon Boards, new users will be asked to visit an external site where they will take a photo of themselves and/or of their ID (we still need to confirm the ID option!).
> The image will then be used to estimate the age of the person by being analysed by a trained algorithm. The image will also be checked to make sure it is a real person.
> This estimated age will be securely sent to our Discussion Boards, saved to their user account, and will only be seen by our internal team. No images are stored, shared, or used for any other purpose than estimating the age.
> Once the age has been estimated, the image is deleted.
> This means we can check if the user’s estimated age matches the date of birth entered into the sign up form.
Why is this happening?
We’re aware this is a pretty big change, and we do have some time before it’ll go live to discuss how you feel about it. The reason we’re making these changes is because we continuously review and improve our services. We also update our policies and follow updated legislations.
We have a legal duty to implement this, but we also want to be able to offer you reassurance and answer any questions you may have.
How can I ask questions about this or give feedback?
You can share your thoughts and ask questions here below, DM us, or by email community@themix.org.uk. We're here to support you.
3
Comments
Number 2, if you’re relying on AI primarily, AI isn’t the best at guessing age. I have an app for my visual impairment with a feature that estimates age (mostly for fun). It thinks I’m at least 30, if not 35. I’m 22. Is this where an ID would be needed?
Number 3, if it does need ID, most people under 18 (and even some over 18) don’t have valid ID. If you don’t include PASS cards in your ID list, you’re going to exclude a hell of a lot of people. Many young people don’t have passports, a lot of these come from poor socioeconomic backgrounds and may be more likely to struggle with mental health.. but good luck if they don’t have a passport i guess. It’s illegal for me to even apply for a drivers licence, so that wouldn’t only exclude me but everyone under 17 as well.
Number 4, personal data… we need to see the privacy policy in full in relation to this.
And number 5 before I forget.. these systems raise huge accessibility problems for some people. Mainly visually impaired as they have strict requirements on what the photo needs to be.
What is the new management up to with all these stuff going on. It’s definitely not for legislation as you say as even childline does not do this nor any website with age restrictions that do actually need this sort of thing.
Super glad I am leaving this doesn’t feel right at all.
Something is off here
what’s to stop someone pretending to be someone else? i have a younger sister so what would stop me creating an account using her picture then if im over 25? i could use her picture as she will be under 25 until i am 28. i’m not saying i would do that, it’s just an example, and im sure there will definitely be people out there who do that due to the lack of services in the uk so they just need support of some form. realistically, if there’s no need to present id also, whats to stop people just googling ‘picture of 14 year old’ and taking a photo from google then to upload?
fully agree with @independent_ about how other services do not require this, why is it only the mix that it applies too? there are services eg kooth which is 11-25, myblackdog with is 18+, knus which is 18+, childline which is under 19 and the list goes on, none of which require anyone to prove their age so its a bit strange how it’s ONLY the mix requiring such things?
you’re definitely not the only one - there will be so so many people out of using the mix for that reason!!!
Can't people just upload a photo of someone else and make this entire process completely pointless?
Ah but its not pointless! The 'trained algorithm' isnt gonna train itself...
"Trained algorithm" sounds like a nice way to say 'artificial intelligence', which along with problems already pointed out by others, will of course use the data to improve its 'age recognition'. So following this: The more faces it sees, the better it will become. Thats how AI works.
Assuming that is all that its used for...
Even then, I will never stand for AI. AI might be the reason most creative and talented people here won't have any jobs in the future. How hard is it to hire one human to do that verification manually?? Heck, even I could do that! It wont be hard. I dont suppose there will be many people signing up anyway, not anymore at least.
The last thing I want is a computer thinking itself as sentient judging my age based on my physical appearance.
Then imagine your image being used by said computer to judge others. I would bet that data will be sold. Even if it is just used for 'estimating age' as you say.
Now a completely other perspective. Imagine a vulnerable 13 year old (most likely looking for support) logging on to an online forum and taking a photo of themselves just to be able to get peer support. If that isnt the OPPOSITE of basic online safety then I dont know what is. Isnt that crazy??
Also this: I call bullshit. This site was always 13-25 and this was never necessary, nor is it necessary on any other site like this! This is just a way of telling us "this is happening and you cant change our mind".
All that being said, I can see where you're coming from and why this could be helpful, but MY GOD is this not thought out properly. And the fact that as mentioned, this thing isnt even used by literal adult websites puts into perspective how fishy it all is. I think you have quite the explaining to do.
"The longer I live on this planet the more I understand why roosters start their day screaming"
Chris built an amazing community which felt safe. The new people took over for a couple of months and everyone’s left. How is this not ringing alarm bells💀 Are there any OG staff left with voices big enough to advocate for us and to fight for the safe website this once was? it’s obvious why all the staff and community left . You’ve not created a safe space for young people to reach out about their mental health. You’re creating more and more barriers. This isn’t exactly the ‘amazing step in the right direction for digital mental health’ we were all spoon fed before the merger happened.
LISTEN to the young people, LISTEN to the people you’re supposed to be helping. We’re telling you what we need and you’re continuously ignoring us. Why do folk in the mental health industry always do that? It’s not about funding, not about not knowing how to help. It’s because their heads are too far up their own arses to listen to what the young people are calling out and begging for.
Just. Listen…. And then you will see positive change for young people’s mental health
i fully agree with @Faolan there, the mix should be listening to what the service users are saying and actually taking it onboard before there isn’t anyone left in the community - the way it’s going the mod availability issues resulting in chats being cancelled won’t even matter as there will be no one there to join the chats anyways lol
@shannon_164 unfortunately i feel like this is their goal. For everyone not
Happy with the change to leave, therefore getting rid of the old community and then they’re free to shape the mix into a completely different website.
They obviously have a very clear goal and it’s not one that has the community at the forefront of their mind. Our voices don’t matter, else we’d have been listened to when we first started telling them we were uncomfortable with the change. Simply, it’s their way or no way.
I feel so sorry for the staff & mods who have left and I can see clearly now why they did. They cared about us and what the mix once was 🩵
The Mix Charity
3,651 followers
1mo Edited
The Mix’s CEO, Chris Martin, will be stepping down from his role at the end of January to focus on supporting charities in the youth and mental health sectors with the adoption of new technologies.
Since joining in 2016, Chris has led The Mix into becoming the UK’s leading digital support service for under 25’s. During this time, The Mix has reached over three million young people every year with free and confidential help, with a focus on mental wellbeing. In 2024 alone, The Mix delivered 5,000 counselling sessions and offered over 1,000 opportunities for young people through it’s volunteering and ambassador opportunities.
His presence and leadership will be deeply felt by the wonderful team he has helped create, and his legacy lies in the innovative thinking and unfailing commitment to young people, paving the way for a brighter future for under 25’s.
He leaves The Mix under the new governance of Mental Health Innovations, and the organisation has never been so poised and ready to step into the next chapter of digital mental health support for the young people of the UK.
Please join us in thanking Chris for all his hard work, care and commitment over the years. Here at The Mix, we could not have supported so many young people across the UK without his dedication and vision. We will miss Chris - his guidance, expertise and genuine passion for what he does and the young people he supports and we wish him all the best in this next chapter. 👏
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
I wonder how much this 'external site' payed them for all the data they'll collect by this 🤔
A shit ton.
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous
The staff are amazing and it was all genuine. It's just like you said the management and the merger taking over, it urgently needs sorting out.
Definitely
Firstly, thank you so much for your posts above and for speaking out about the new age verification processes for new Community users. We hear just how worrying, confusing, and anger-provoking this change might feel, particularly when Community means a huge amount to so many of you. It is clear there is such strong care and concern here, and some of you feel that your voices are being ignored. We hear you. And we are listening. And we don't wish to undermine or discount any part of how you feel right now.
We are genuinely very sorry that we are unable to offer you more clarity and answers today, and see just how hard it might feel to have this uncertainty right now. You raise really important, valid questions and we are gathering these as a team and passing them on so that we can come back to you with answers as soon as we are able.
Some of you feel suspicious this new age verification process will be potentially harmful or unjust. We take these concerns very seriously, and are continuously reviewing our services to ensure we are staying up to date with the latest legislation and laws. It is sometimes the case that due to legislation updates, changes such as this age verification process may need to be carried out promptly. Again, we recognise just how anger-inducing it might be for us to not be able to offer direct answers to your concerns today. I can assure you that getting back to you is a matter of urgent priority for us.
Change of any kind can be hugely anxiety-inducing for some of us and we really hope that you can take care of yourselves at this time - there's been a lot to process. It can be really, really hard. And we're mindful that many Community members will be coping with lots too in your day-to-day lives.
We're here for you as a staff and moderation team, via DM, our email inbox, and our formal feedback systems too: https://community.themix.org.uk/home/leaving?allowTrusted=1&target=https://bit.ly/TheMixFeedbackForm.
Please do reach out. We want to hear you
it’s just strange how the mix is the ONLY service that this seems to apply to…?
Thank you for baring with us!
If it is law, will it apply to other sites too?
"The way that I have found the light in my life is through the expressive arts because I know that I will be accepted for the way I am." ~ Me
"I'm going to get strong again and see you soon. " ~ Anonymous