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Verbal and Non-Verbal Consent

AifeAife Community Manager Posts: 3,031 Boards Guru
in Sex & Relationships
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Hey everyone,

The definition of sexual consent can be confusing in real life and sometimes people find it hard to understand what consent means in different situations. The law defines consent as someone agreeing ‘by choice’ to the sexual experience and having ‘the freedom and capacity to make that choice’. For example, if someone is drunk, asleep, unconscious or too young to understand about sex, they are unable to give consent.

It important to remember that it doesn’t matter who the other person is, what your relationship with them might be, or how far you’ve gone with them in the past – you always have a right to say no or withdraw your consent at any time.

Consent can be given both verbally and physically, so as well as verbally communicating consent, it’s important to keep in mind someone’s body language.

Do you think consent was given in this video about Laura & Matt? What could be some examples of both verbal and non-verbal consent?

- Aife
Maybe somethings don't get better, but we do. We get stronger. We learn to live with our situations as messy and ugly as they are. We fix what we can and we adapt to what we can't. Maybe some of us will never fully be okay, but at least we're here. We're still trying. We're doing the best we can. That's worth celebrating too ❤

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It'd be useful if someone would give advice about how best to obtain consent in an intended one-night stand. If you're male, asking directly would likely result in being sharply slapped around the face, insulted, having a drink thrown over you etc.

    In regard to drunkenness, millions of people have had sex with someone new whilst under the influence of alcohol. A high proportion of those people got drunk in order to lower their inhibitions and make them more bold in order to enable them to achieve their goal that night of having sex with someone new. How drunk is too drunk to consent?

    A change in the law means that fellatio without consent from the receptive partner is now classed as rape.
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    SienaSiena Posts: 15,497 Skive's The Limit
    Thank you for sharing.
    I've had sessions after sessions about consent (for my safety) and still get confused.

    Consent wasn't given in the video. And consent isnt given if they're non verbally - being stiff, tense, not much eye contact, hardly moving or saying anything, pushing away and being withdrawal, not looking like they are enjoying it and looking upset. ? And show they do want it if they look like they enjoy it, actively moving instead of staying still, giving eye contact, touching back and looking relaxed.

    I dont know how drunk is to drunk. But I think if theh are drunk, it's rape. Cause there's being drunk and having a couple of drinks are not affecting that much. And if they clearly seem different and can barely say much, let alone communicate what they want, then definitely rape.

    Verbal consent is saying things that are positive and are saying yes
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Freezing isn't consent - that's the point of the video and article.

    Shaunie, you've confused the terms. Verbal and non-verbal consent are two types of consent. Verbal consent uses words; non-verbal consent doesn't. Someone choosing to take their clothes off and initiate or be receptive to sex are examples of non-verbal consent. Non-verbal consent means consent that isn't verbal - it doesn't mean a lack of consent.

    Some people get drunk a lot quicker than others. Some people want to get drunk and have sex with someone new - it's many people's idea of a great night out.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aidan wrote: »
    I was just taught that anything other than 'yes' means no. I can't pick up on all these non-verbal ways of consenting anyway. Is a naked girl laying on my bed consenting non-verbally? I don't know. That's why I keep it simple by keeping single.

    Most sex doesn't involve either party actually saying yes.

    Millions of single people have sex.
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    SienaSiena Posts: 15,497 Skive's The Limit
    Robert wrote: »

    Shaunie, you've confused the terms. Verbal and non-verbal consent are two types of consent. Verbal consent uses words; non-verbal consent doesn't. Someone choosing to take their clothes off and initiate or be receptive to sex are examples of non-verbal consent. Non-verbal consent means consent that isn't verbal - it doesn't mean a lack of consent.
    .

    Ah oh yeah
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I didn't say that sex should be a commodity - although the reality is that most women demand/require some form of payment before they will agree to have sex (flowers, chocolates, jewellery, restaurant dinner, designer clothes, money, him paying her bills etc.) That's true in many long-term relationships as well, in which the man pays all the bills, mortgage, holidays etc. whilst the woman contributes little or nothing.

    Having sex when single doesn't mean that it has to be a one-night stand. Some people have long-term sex buddies.

    Many women become rich by charging strangers a lot of money to put their penises in them.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The problem with being frank about what you want sexually is that it will likely get you a sharp slap around the face, a drink thrown over you etc. That's what the people who advise asking directly for consent don't take into account.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    But you won't know how she'll react to that until you ask her for sex the first time. She could be fine before then, but snap and lash out at you. Some people are very touchy about the subject of sex. She might be offended at you raising the subject before taking her on a minimum number of dates or having been seeing her exclusively for a minimum amount of time.

    Most women never initiate sex, so being passive and waiting for her to suggest it would probably result in never having sex once in your whole life. Initiating sex is a heterosexual man's burden, but there's no advice about how exactly to do so. You'd likely be snapped at if you were even to ask anyone for advice on the matter.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You could go through that process with loads of girls and not get anywhere with any of them. Each time could take months. I'm several years older than you and I haven't found a girl who wants to go at my pace with me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes, if you don't mind being celibate, then it's easier and cheaper. I couldn't stand it, though.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The reason that I want part-time relationships is to have the best of both worlds. I'd be both in a relationship and single.
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    Past UserPast User Posts: 976 Part of The Mix Family
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
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    One-in-a-millionOne-in-a-million Posts: 599 Incredible Poster
    I also find none verbal ques hard to understand for example flirting doesn't necessarily mean they want to have sex. I would much prefer someone to ask me if I want to take things further not just assuming by my body language.

    I've never gone into details about this particular event. I have spoken about the fact I was sexually bullied and harassed at school but another incident happened.

    I was speaking to a guy online and with encouragement from a friend who knew him I ended up meeting him. My friend knew and I had arranged a public place close to home. For some reason it ended up being very quiet. We were talking when he asked if I liked him. I told him I wasn't sure yet as we hadn't been talking for very long. He seemed happy with this. Eventually he asked me to hug him, At first I was reluctant but did. Straight away he started kissing me and feeling me up and stuff which I was not ok with. But I felt scared and couldn't say anything. I managed to get out of his grip and said I needed to go home. Again he had no problem with it. Later on I messaged him saying I didn't feel comfortable with what went on. He replied to me saying he thought I was into it and wanted to go further with him. After I replied no he decided we probably shouldn't talk anymore and we haven't.

    Unlike what happened at school where I clearly said "No!" "Stop!" "Don't" which they ignored
    I didn't use verbal concent or said no to this guy but I also didn't concent either. He may have thought (not sure) that the hug meant I wanted to make out and even go further but it didn't. This is why I like to be asked clearly if I'm ok with it or not.

    I know my friend and her boyfriend have been together for over a year but even now he won't have sex unless he has a secure yes as like everyone she's not always in the mood
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    JustVJustV Community Manager Posts: 5,306 Part of The Furniture
    Some super important and interesting discussion happening here guys - really insightful to hear about your personal experiences as well. It seems like a lot of us find it tough to read non-verbal cues or other subtle signals, which can understandably make anything intimate seem quite scary as you said @Aidan. Asking outright for a clear and frank yes or no can be a great way to get around the guesswork if you happen to struggle with communication. :yes: I wonder if we can share a few more ideas for how to make these situations a bit easier?

    Anyway, I just wanted to chip in with our article about enthusiastic consent which has a few useful pointers for what you can look out for. I reckon @Shaunie hit the nail on the head with her response around non-verbal consent - actively moving, showing you're enjoying it, etc rather than just kind of 'going with it'. You can also check out our (fairly) new consent tool at the bottom of that page - it's a bot you can talk to if you're not sure whether you have consent in a certain situation.

    Curious about what you guys think about this - would the ways you give consent in a long term relationship differ from a one-night stand? :chin:
    All behaviour is a need trying to be met.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Honesty and communication seems to come up a lot in this discussion. With one night stands, perhaps both parties have to be more verbally direct with their consent as you may not know the person too well and therefore, struggle to read their non-verbal cues. If in a long-term relationship, it may be that you understand each other's subtle clues more and are more aware when someone isn't reacting how they would if they were consenting.

    An issue that can arise in both situations, one night stand or in a relationship, is the issue of sleep. Say a couple had tried to had sex but it hadn't worked or they got interrupted so they fell asleep. But later, one of them started the sex again but the other was still sleeping or dozy and didn't realise what was happening until after, is this consent? They had consented earlier but did they consent this time? Consent needs to be given each time.
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    AifeAife Community Manager Posts: 3,031 Boards Guru
    Hey @emishere you've raised some interesting points here, particularly around different situations where non-verbal and verbal cues might be more difficult to pick up on.

    There's a really great article on The Mix website which goes into detail about different situations around consent. Some of the important points mentioned in this article is that if someone falls asleep or passes out, they are unable to give consent and consent can always be taken back during sex even if someone's said yes at first, but then changes their mind halfway through. It's important to look out for non-verbal signs, like the article mentions:
    If they stop, you stop. Even if they don&#146;t say &#145;stop&#146; but they seem freaked out, stiff and uncommunicative &#150; stop, and ask they if they&#146;re OK.

    Like Mike mentioned earlier, do you have any ideas of how consent can be communicated more clearly? Do you think there's a gender difference when it comes to the approach taken to communicate consent? Really interested to hear what you think about this :)
    Maybe somethings don't get better, but we do. We get stronger. We learn to live with our situations as messy and ugly as they are. We fix what we can and we adapt to what we can't. Maybe some of us will never fully be okay, but at least we're here. We're still trying. We're doing the best we can. That's worth celebrating too ❤
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    SienaSiena Posts: 15,497 Skive's The Limit
    Is consent, consent, when you are made to consent or feel made to consent ?
    “And when they look at you, they won't see everything you've been through. They won't see the **** that turned to scars that began to fade with time. They won't see the heartbreaking things that shook up and changed your entire world. They won't know how many tears you cried or even what it was you were crying about. They won't see how strong you had to be because you had no other choice. What they will see though is how compassionate you are because you experienced pain. What they will see is how kind you are because you experienced how cruel the world is. What they will see is how good you are because you've seen how bad things or people can be. The difference between you and your experiences are who you choose to be, despite everything that could have turned you cold and unkind.You are the good the world needs and the best of us.” ~ Kirsten Corley
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    JustVJustV Community Manager Posts: 5,306 Part of The Furniture
    These are really good questions to ask, @Shaunie. :yes:

    I reckon @Aidan is bang on - If it's against the person's will, then that's not consent. Consent, by definition, needs to be given freely. In the same way that if someone had a gun to your head and asked for your money, and then you gave them your wallet, you did't consent to that action. You were made to it, right? The same applies to sexual consent. :)

    I think what you said, @Aidan, is quite interesting - that is could be more about 'giving' and 'receiving' rather than your gender. It could make sense that someone 'giving' can non-verbally consent much more easily than someone 'receiving'.

    If you're not sure, what are some ways to check if the 'receiver' is into it? :chin: (for example, you could ask if something feels good or ask them what they like)

    (Tea video that Aidan mentioned!)
    All behaviour is a need trying to be met.
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