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A UK - US union?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Do you think it is possible and better for the UK to join the North American Free Trade Area instead of being a member of the EU?
There are more differences in political ideas between the UK and rest of Europe than between the UK and the US. In fact, throughout history, the UK and America has been quite a close alliance - from the second world war to the falkland island war, etc. (I am not going to repeat the things on history text books).
In a cultural point of view, both the UK and the US speak the same language (yeah I know you can argue they speak different). And also the US has the history origin back to the UK.
As more and more people see the threat of Euro but at the same time we dont want to feel isolated, should we get closer to the US?
There are more differences in political ideas between the UK and rest of Europe than between the UK and the US. In fact, throughout history, the UK and America has been quite a close alliance - from the second world war to the falkland island war, etc. (I am not going to repeat the things on history text books).
In a cultural point of view, both the UK and the US speak the same language (yeah I know you can argue they speak different). And also the US has the history origin back to the UK.
As more and more people see the threat of Euro but at the same time we dont want to feel isolated, should we get closer to the US?
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Comments
Just look at other threads, where it isn't hidden how much some people disagree with the american system.
Yes, I disagree with the American system... but I disagree with the European system even more. The American Constitution may have its flaws, but not as great ones as the Napoleonic code that is, essentially, the 'European Constitution.'
If the UK had to unite with either the USA or the 'United States of Europe' I'd choose the USA, every time.
If we joined the US we would become the 51st state or whatever, with no say. We wouldn't even be a powerful member nation.
Now don't get me wrong, I dislike both ideas as you already know. But I dislike the idea of becoming a small US state even more.
Trade alliances are rather different from defacto "proprietorship"... However, your hatred and jealousy of all things pertaining to the US likely delude you from that reality...
Nobody is talking about becoming a state Whowhere..Its just a trade/economic thing...
If its a choice between the EU and the US then, like Mac, I take the USA every single time. Of course, id much rather see our country totally independant and able to trade with both...Unfortunately people seem to have resigned themselves to us joining something or other
It's also amusing how your double standards meant that you ignored Mackenzie's post about how he'd rather not be in the EU if given a choice.
I didn't say I hate the USA, all I stated was out of Europe and the US I prefer both.
Learn to read, instead of misinterpret.
Double standards though. Everyone is opposed to the EU because of fears of becoming completely absorbed into the US Europe. But mention the USA and noone thinks it will happen.
The difference being that the EU is a political union and NAFTA is trade.
Aladdin, The vast majority of Americans are Europeans as well. Personally I feel that both myself and probably the majority of Brits, feel closer to the Americans than to our continental friends.
Your hatred, jealousy, and fear of the US has been pointed out by others, and prior to any reference by me...
As to "learning to read"... how ya doin' Mr Kettle?
I guessed I missed the UK being invited to join as a member of the North American Free Trade ACT...
NAFTA is another of the moves by this country which I do not agree with... result has been an increase in jobs lost here. Major benificiary has been Mexico, a country we could/should foreclose upon. Hmmm... how much oil do they have down there? Enough to pay off their debt to US?
Oh, go and read the United States' Constitution and check on the allocation of Congressional seats to the various states of the Union. We would have the same number of Senators as every other state: two. Also, with a population of over 50 million, and strong manufacturing and service industries, we would be one of the most populous and productive patches of all.
It's an interesting point to consider that the USA and UK are on better terms now than the constituent states of the Union were as it was being formed over two centuries ago.
I know NAFTA is a trading agreement. Then again, the European Union began as the European Economic Community. Two hundred years ago, it would have seemed laughable that the North American east-coast country known as the USA could ever have as a state some small islands in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. Times change.
I think that the UK is well-served by independence. However, countries have a habit of forming unions for mutual benefit; these unions can be military, economic, even governmental. I honestly think that the British mindset would more easily work within the USA's system than the European one: the Napoleonic Code is an alien idea. At least on the other side of The Pond there is a sense that the private citizen has rights against the State.
yes, but you're forgetting distance. It might not seem it, but to many people distance is an important factor. To the Americans, we'd be another far flung colony or similar. to us the Americans would be our distant benfactors/trade partners.
You say we have a similar mindset, with similar thoughts about rights e.t.c. However, you have to remember that all of the European nations are based on monarchies, and then republics. Maybe we have similar mindsets because we are subjected to a huge amount of American media? Just a theory, as there is no proof. However, we certainly don't have the same rights as they do. We are under a lot more governmental control than they are, even if we don't realise it.
I'm not arguing, just pointing out reasons why, in MY opinion it wouldn't work. That's what it is, just a personal opinion, the same way you prefer the US, I prefer Europe.
'Similar mindsets' -- stems from the early 1800's and the Protestant work ethic.
Sure, we don't have the same constitutional rights as American citizens -- that's half the point! Our idea of what a citizen's rights should be is far closer to the American one than the Napoleonic: as I said, it does not occur to the adherent of the Napoleonic code (from which much of European political thought is directly descended) that the individual could or should have rights against the State.
You really think you could swallow the German 'Alles In Ordnung' mentality?