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Work/employers and appearance/hair lengh

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
Ok. It was bought up briefly but they're not made a big deal regarding it yet.


I've started growing my hair again and its at the stage of, I need to do something with it, but it is to long to tie back.

Anyway my employers bought up v casually that it is long, and should be cut. They're reasoning being the image of the hotel, guys with long hair are not the correct image.

Now am I right in saying as long as its clean, neat and tidy then there is nothing they can do as they allow my female colleagues have long hair.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Having long hair, myself, I understand where you're coming from and my mentality on the subject would be "Well, fuck you then" too. But if it's a private establishment, they have the right to demand their employees convey a certain "image".
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    However surely under equal rights it can't be one image for one gender, one for another,
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mate, you look awful with long hair anyway :p.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mate, you look awful with long hair anyway :p.

    Each to their own...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I agree that it's gender discrimination if they allow women to have long hair but not men, and visa versa. Whether you persue that line of defense is... well, it's your right but it won't make you popular.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    just cut it
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    just cut it

    Exactly. Do you really want to have this battle? How much free time and money do you have for the dismissal case?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mist wrote: »
    Exactly. Do you really want to have this battle? How much free time and money do you have for the dismissal case?

    This is what I'll probably do, but I still want to know my legal rights.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    most people cant get away with expressing themselves via their appearance once theyre past college, as most jobs expect you to look smart and well kempt
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    katralla wrote: »
    I agree that it's gender discrimination if they allow women to have long hair but not men, and visa versa. Whether you persue that line of defense is... well, it's your right but it won't make you popular.

    No it's not. For instance, a woman may be allowed to wear a (sensible) skirt to work, but it's not unfair for an employer to ask that their male employees not wear one. Long hair on men is different than long hair on women. Especially if his hair is at that awkward stage where it's growing out and just looks messy and like you really need a haircut, long hair is often thought of as unprofessional for a man. It's not a big deal. When you take a job, you accept that your employer may have certain rules as far as what is considered appropriate attire for the workplace. If you don't like it, you can work somewhere else.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Long hair on men is different than long hair on women.

    How is it different.. why should women be allowed long hair but men not?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I explained that. Some people consider it unprofessional for a man to have longer hair just like it would be unprofessional for you, as a man, to show up in a skirt. Working at a hotel, your appearance matters as far as making the entire establishment look professional. Working at that particular establishment is not a "right", you chose to be there and you have to abide by your employers rules insofar as they're not infringing on your actual rights. "The right to have long hair" isn't something you have, your employers are allowed to ask you to keep it shorter.

    If you are unwilling to cut your hair, work somewhere else (although, personally, I think it'd be a really stupid reason to quit your job if everything else is going fine). You could try reasoning with your employer, maybe they'll be willing to reach a compromise. A lawsuit would be outright ridiculous. You're making a bigger deal out of this than it is, and it's ridiculous to suggest that if you have to keep your hair shorter that your female coworkers should have to get crew cuts as well. Guess what they'd do if that happened, though? Would they sue over their rights being violated? No, they'd either comply or quit. Likewise, those are your options in this case.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I explained that. Some people consider it unprofessional for a man to have longer hair just like it would be unprofessional for you, as a man, to show up in a skirt. Working at a hotel, your appearance matters as far as making the entire establishment look professional. Working at that particular establishment is not a "right", you chose to be there and you have to abide by your employers rules insofar as they're not infringing on your actual rights.

    it is not in any contract. Handbook or notice saying I cannot have long hair, it simply says "long hair should be tied back where possible" And I'm sorry but regardless of whether some people may deem it less professional if I want to have long hair, so long as it is clean, neat and tidy should be my choice, not my employers.
    "The right to have long hair" isn't something you have, your employers are allowed to ask you to keep it shorter.

    If you are unwilling to cut your hair, work somewhere else (although, personally, I think it'd be a really stupid reason to quit your job if everything else is going fine). You could try reasoning with your employer, maybe they'll be willing to reach a compromise. A lawsuit would be outright ridiculous. You're making a bigger deal out of this than it is, and it's ridiculous to suggest that if you have to keep your hair shorter that your female coworkers should have to get crew cuts as well. Guess what they'd do if that happened, though? Would they sue over their rights being violated? No, they'd either comply or quit. Likewise, those are your options in this case.

    I never once mentioned lawsuits, and suing. It seems from what I can find I do have some rights regarding long hair. It's a bit mixed, however I never once mentioned lawsuits or tribunals or suing where did you get that idea from? I imply arsed legally can my employer demand I have short hair. To which the answer seems 50/50 with no definite, you must also remember our rights on the UK are very different than the US.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    How is it different.. why should women be allowed long hair but men not?

    society standards. In an ideal world, appearances wouldnt matter, but a man with long hair is making a statement, and a woman with long hair is just traditional.
    A lot of jobs wont mind long hair on men, but a lot will, especially as clan mother says, its at that inbetween messy growing out stage.

    A lot of jobs wouldnt appreciate a full beard on a woman either i expect
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    However surely under equal rights it can't be one image for one gender, one for another,


    Sadly not in this regard. This is about dress code and discrimination laws do not apply.

    Been there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hellfire wrote: »
    it is not in any contract. Handbook or notice saying I cannot have long hair, it simply says "long hair should be tied back where possible" And I'm sorry but regardless of whether some people may deem it less professional if I want to have long hair, so long as it is clean, neat and tidy should be my choice, not my employers.
    By asking about legality, it seemed to imply that you were hoping you could take some sort of action against your employer. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

    Look, you're welcome to try to compromise with your employer on the issue. Maybe you'll get lucky. In the end, it's up to them what the dress code is while you're at work. Maybe you want to wear your Marilyn Manson t-shirt and your very ripped-up jeans, but your employer may not let you. Sometimes it sucks, but that's how it goes. Perhaps when it refers to long hair, it's referring to females with long hair. They may never have had problems with guys having long hair and thus didn't think to include it. *shrugs* The employer may wish for their male employees to look more respectable, and long shaggy hair doesn't really convey that image. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to prefer their male employees have short-ish hair. You can always work somewhere else that will allow you to keep yours long.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    that time you turned up in a frock?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    society standards. In an ideal world, appearances wouldnt matter, but a man with long hair is making a statement, and a woman with long hair is just traditional.
    A lot of jobs wont mind long hair on men, but a lot will, especially as clan mother says, its at that inbetween messy growing out stage.

    A lot of jobs wouldnt appreciate a full beard on a woman either i expect
    MoK wrote: »
    Sadly not in this regard. This is about dress code and discrimination laws do not apply.

    Been there.

    Thank you, both of you. This is what I've been trying to explain.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, to be correct according to the links I just googled (which makes me an instant expert) discrimination could apply, but the way in which the dress codes are worded and put into practice can make such claims very difficult to win, because the discrimination is not as clear cut as it might be elsewhere. (See for example the last link I posted where one party was successful, but another not.)

    Either way though, totally not worth it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By asking about legality, it seemed to imply that you were hoping you could take some sort of action against your employer. Sorry if I misinterpreted that.

    Look, you're welcome to try to compromise with your employer on the issue.

    I know I'm more than welcome to discuss this, the way you've said that seems like your giving me your permission to do so, thanks :rolleyes: and yes, you did make a rather bad assumption, apology accepted.
    Maybe you'll get lucky. In the end, it's up to them what the dress code is while you're at work. Maybe you want to wear your Marilyn Manson t-shirt and your very ripped-up jeans, but your employer may not let you. Sometimes it sucks, but that's how it goes. Perhaps when it refers to long hair, it's referring to females with long hair. They may never have had problems with guys having long hair and thus didn't think to include it. *shrugs* The employer may wish for their male employees to look more respectable, and long shaggy hair doesn't really convey that image. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to prefer their male employees have short-ish hair. You can always work somewhere else that will allow you to keep yours long.

    Problem is, my hair isn't shaggy, it sits ever so slightly on my collar but not shaggy, combed, flat etc. Infact it is very tidy I think and so do others. You seem to be describing my hair in a few of my posts without even seeing it

    It sits 3-4mm on my collar so its not even long in my opinion.


    As I've said, I wanted to know if i could tell my employer that I am going to keep my long hair, as legally entitled to per "blah blah blah"
    As this seems to not be the case I will do what my employers ask,

    Just so you know, I've had problems with my employers before, and them demanding me or my colleagues to do things against our rights, aka less than 11hours between shifts, 7days working etc.... my employers will shaft you if they think they can get away with it. And they have done many times before
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Does it say anything in your contract about dress/appearance?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kat_B wrote: »
    Does it say anything in your contract about dress/appearance?

    It mentions appearence, uniform and hair twice through our handbook and contracts, First time
    PRESENT YOURSELF ...........immaculately and in the correct uniform. Smart, clean shaven, sweet smelling, tidy and with long hair tied back. No excessive jewellery or obvious piercings. False and painted nails are not permitted at work.

    Second Time
    You should dress in the uniform appropriate to your job. Uniforms should be kept clean and tidy, and in good repair at all times. It is essential that you are well groomed and smart at all times. Long hair must be tied back.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    immaculately is subjective. They could get you on that
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Been here myself dozens of times.

    Sorry but I don't agree at any job, unless it will negatively affect your job role/other legal standards, should you have to change your appearance. From hair, to tattoos, to piercings etc. Just because society has a normality and a tradition, that it may affect their professional image. I've always found that term ridiculous. Are people forgetting that you're still a human being with a life outside of work, and that you all visit and use other businesses but you don't judge a entire business on how the staff presents themselves (I don't myself) - but because a man has long hair, you refuse to visit and bad mouth that business?

    Sometimes it is rules for others. Take my job at McDonald's. My lip ring (had zero change of it falling out, unless my face fell off), yet I had to take it out each shift because I was preparing food. I'm fine with that because of germs (even though it kept irritating the piercing, and risked a bigger threat, an infection) - even though I still wash my hands if I ever touch my face - so I don't see why it would matter that much. But girls were wearing ear rings, they had just as much germs on as my lip ring, and had more of a chance of falling out into food but they were allowed. Wedding rings were allowed to be worn at all times, not even taken of and cleaned separately when coming on shift - and during the day for through cleaning - though they are in direct contact with food, but because it's a wedding ring, or even if it was a religious ring, it was allowed. Though I had to take mine off because I never classed mine as either.

    These days it's all about being sued. Not what is better for the staff, or generally. Just like with Equal Opportunities. It's bollocks.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It says that long hair must be tied back, you can't tie your hair back so ergo they win on a technicality.

    The rule at work for us is, that if you want to grow your hair or moustache/beard then you can, however you have to do it during leave periods. That way you're not turning up at work looking like you've not bothered having a shave. And if we decide to grow our hair, it has to be done in a bun anyway......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    where i used to work they had that rule too, where if you want to grow beard etc, only during leave periods
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