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Ban smoking in cars when carrying children
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8104062.stm
Several things are wrong with this.
1) Why do they continue to try to legislate common sense? I mean, it takes a staggeringly low intellect to smoke in your car when there are children present.
2) This assumes that people who smoke and drive will do so regardless of their passengers
3) Following on from point 2, it further goes to promote the belief amongst the more militant anti-smoking groups that all smokers are evil and that they (a bunch of adults) clearly know what's best for us better than we do (another bunch of adults). Furthermore, they also wish to inflict their nasty habit upon all and sundry. Anyone who genuinely thinks this needs sectioning quick smart. Good people smoke too. We also pay a vast amount of tax on our little habit which in a recession is, I would imagine, quite welcome....
4) This will be virtually impossible to enforce. Just think of all the additional paperwork...
5) Presumably the people who want this pushed through are quite happy to sit in traffic jams for hours huffing exhaust fumes.
If I had kids, and if, God forbid, I smoked in my car in front of them and, again God forbid, they were diagnosed with something horrible and nasty, my reaction would be the following:
"Why me, why me? I should never have been so stupid as to have smoked in the car with my kids in the back".
NEVER would the thought even enter my mind that it was somehow the Government's fault for not stopping me smoking in my car with my kids in tow. NEVER.
Lifted shamelessly from a brilliant piece ages ago by James Dalingpole, who put the whole debate about smoking bans etc. better than I ever could:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/james-delingpole-smoking-yes-yes-we-know-its-no-good-for-you-but-is-it-really-so-bad-454412.html
Thoughts?
Several things are wrong with this.
1) Why do they continue to try to legislate common sense? I mean, it takes a staggeringly low intellect to smoke in your car when there are children present.
2) This assumes that people who smoke and drive will do so regardless of their passengers
3) Following on from point 2, it further goes to promote the belief amongst the more militant anti-smoking groups that all smokers are evil and that they (a bunch of adults) clearly know what's best for us better than we do (another bunch of adults). Furthermore, they also wish to inflict their nasty habit upon all and sundry. Anyone who genuinely thinks this needs sectioning quick smart. Good people smoke too. We also pay a vast amount of tax on our little habit which in a recession is, I would imagine, quite welcome....
4) This will be virtually impossible to enforce. Just think of all the additional paperwork...
5) Presumably the people who want this pushed through are quite happy to sit in traffic jams for hours huffing exhaust fumes.
If I had kids, and if, God forbid, I smoked in my car in front of them and, again God forbid, they were diagnosed with something horrible and nasty, my reaction would be the following:
"Why me, why me? I should never have been so stupid as to have smoked in the car with my kids in the back".
NEVER would the thought even enter my mind that it was somehow the Government's fault for not stopping me smoking in my car with my kids in tow. NEVER.
Lifted shamelessly from a brilliant piece ages ago by James Dalingpole, who put the whole debate about smoking bans etc. better than I ever could:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/james-delingpole-smoking-yes-yes-we-know-its-no-good-for-you-but-is-it-really-so-bad-454412.html
Thoughts?
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
I've never met anyone who will do this. In fact. I've never met anyone who would smoke in front of me without my permission.
there ARE a lot of morons out there who do do this though.
But I have to admit (and I'm worried about posting this here, as I'd rather nobody have a dig at my parents
Regardless, I would have loved this law as a kid. Lets just hope I don't get lung cancer and have to sue the government :yippe:
For what it's worth though, I don't know very many smokers these days, and the ones that I do know are quite courteous about their smoking. There is the odd one I've come across who blatantly doesn't give a crap (this includes my sister) and think that god gave them a right to do whatever the hell they like. But that's more about being antisocial than being a smoker, if it's not the cigarrettes it's loud music, etc. etc.
You need to meet some of the real anti-smoking lot. It will put a lot of things into perspective.
Yes, there are. But these are most likely the same group of morons who wouldn't listen to any legislation. So it'd be a completely useless law to introduce.
Essentially the only effect of such a law would be to annoy a section of society who is already annoyed at the government, that being smokers.
This is a common thing in this country where the reaction of government bodies is to legislate rather than educate. It assumes that everyone is stupid, and that assumption annoys a lot of people.
There is the other side though, that smokers are addicts, and I have seen on several occasion smokers fly off the handle when they are craving a cigarrette. If your with friends, it's fine because someone can nip outside for a cigarrete. If you're at work and your boss stipulates no fag breaks, and they're used to 3 packs a day, well just hope you have as much space between yourself and them as in my experience those who can't deal with the cravings well are unbearable. It's either skiving off for 5 minutes while you have to cover and hope your boss doesn't come over and make some lie up about an upset stomach or something, or being a right arse to be around because they are pissed off at everything.
So I definitely think there are two sides to it.
Very true, and commensurate with a view that's put accross by Bystander in his excellent Magistrate blog "The Law West of Ealing Broadway". A comment of his ages ago ran along the lines of "you can't legislate against stupidity, but fortunately for the public, it manifests itself in a million and one ways."
Shyboy, of course there are two sides to it and as usual, it's the nutters on the fringes of both sides that detract from the normal, rational, sensible, considerate people who either smoke or don't who are willing to compromise. All smokers I know will not skive off every 20 minutes, smoke regardless of their surroundings or what other people might think etc. That's not to say that there aren't people who will, but it's not representative of the majority of us who can exercise some self-control. I take two 5-minute fag breaks a day. I would actually argue that it makes me more productive for the reason that it gives my brain a 5-minute break to relax, to centre itself and I think that as a result, my general concentration levels are higher than without those short breaks.
The difference is that the lunatic non-smoking fringe is increasingly listened do and, as far as I can tell, getting their way.
In any case, people who do that might not care about the legislation but now they'll have to pay a fine or whatever, where before they wouldn't. This might make them think a bit more.
Why is it that the smoking ban in pubs came in before this however?
Also, as Devil's Kitchen points out, this debate was "entirely engineered by the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation". Read it.
I have a friend who is supposedly "anti-smoking", but stands in a smoking shelter and moans about the smell.:rolleyes: I admit, I don't like the smell, but if I didn't like it that much, I wouldn't stand in a smoking shelter and moan about it.
I think as smoking is still a legal activity putting excessive infringements on it is just wrong. Sometimes the public or in this case parents need to be trusted to behave responsibly and the government aren't going to earn any kind of support by demonising smokers and putting sanctions on what they can and cannot do in their own property. I'm sure tons of things that parents do in front of their kids could be considered harmful, but children seem pretty sturdy and it's hardly putting them in immediate danger.
Nanny state is such a nuisance.
But seeing how you have to be completely stupid or just a cunt to smoke in confined spaces with children, I don't know how anybody can object. Forcing children who have no choice in the the matter to breath your own smoke is a horrendous thing to do.
Well I would prefer conditional smoking rather than an outright ban.
They're not demonising all smokers here. You should not be smoking in you car with children. I liek to see somebody argue otherwise.
For me, this is the point. You have to be an idiot to smoke in a confined place with a child, yes. But this legislation is unenforceable and those idiots who already do it won't stop because there is a law saying 'stop smoking in your car'.
As unenforcable as driving without a seat belt, or driving whilst using your phone. Doesn't mean that it should remain legal because it will be hard to enforce.
If this can mean that most people wont smoke with children in the car then its worth it.
A lot of people do stick to the law and let it guide them you know!
Im not anti smoking for consenting adults. I am dead against making children smoke, and if youre smoking in a tiny confined space like a car with your children in the bback, you may as well be forcing them to smoke a cigarette
1. Invent a bogeyman.
2. Get some tossbag like Liam Donaldson to bang on about it for a few months.
3. Fine and/or tax the fuck out of the bogeyman. Extra bonus points if it's to 'protect the children'.
4. Spend the proceeds on your moat.
I expect fast food vendors to get another kicking soon, in order to justify a 30% tax on eating out.
but by that token i dont understand where all these restrictions will stop. if someone smokes it seems pretty unavoidable that their child is going to come in contact with at least some of the smoke. should we ban smokers from having kids? it seems messed up that smokers are being targeted again and again and pulled to the fringes of society. gov just need to ban smoking altogether if they are gonna keep doing this. (please dont ban smoking government)
The rule of thumb is generally anywhere someone else is going to be inhaling your passive smoke doesn't have a choice about it. So kids, staff at work, etc. etc. However if you go to a friends house and they smoke, fair enough. I don't think it should be banned (or rather an exemption given) to Shisha bars.
So then, asthma in children caused by vehicle pollution. Thoughts?
Every car must be fitted with a catalytic converter. The more environmentally friendly the car, the better tax perks you get.
The difference is the benefit of cars - in allowing people to travel - is far greater than the benefit of people smoking. It is double standards but things are changing with a greater emphasis on pushing people to choose better options.
With smokers they're an easy target really, because smoking is indefensible. It is damaging just the same as vehicle pollution but it's far easier for the government to write a law banning smoking in vehicles with children, than for it ban vehicles with certain emissions.
That's just politics really. The cold truth this implies is that children's health is greater than smoker's desire to have a fag in their car, but not greater than people's desire to drive to work / shopping etc.
coming into contact with some smoke is one thing.
Putting a child in a box with someone smoking in it where they are strapped in and cant breathe clean air or get away is another thing entirely.
My partner smokes and we have children. He wont smoke in the house while they are around because its not fair on them. He would never smoke in the car with children in it because thats even worse. its a much more confined space. I know people who do smoke around their children and i really have to bite my tongue
So what you're saying is that it's plain old common sense not to smoke with kids in your car? In which case, why do we need a law to say that?
The common theme that I'm seeing here is that most people are saying they wouldn't do this already, and that most of their friends wouldn't do it either. Because they all accept that it's stupid. Only a very few people therefore currently smoke in a car with kids in. I think they are the same people who would ignore this law.
So what do we do about that? Do we run an education campagin, or, instead, just introduce a ban? It seems that we're taking the "oh, just ban it" approach.
Of course, in this particular case, with smoking, the problem is that any attempt to educate is essentially hypocritical. The more you have adverts showing the damage smoking can do, the more ridiculous it becomes that smoking is allowed at all. A potential line of reasoning (logical or not) is -
1. The government are trying to protect my / my kids health here.
2. The government allow cigarettes to be sold.
3. So smoke can't be that bad.
There's a fundamental problem with smoking as a whole that is not easily solvable. No Government is likely to want to be the one that bans smoking outright, so instead it looks like we are set for a number of smaller hits against smoking, some of which will just be wastes of time.
I also wonder with this one where the resources will come from that will be enforcing and prosecuting under this law.
Because people still do it.
It's common sense not to talk on your mobile whilst driving, common senese to make you children wear a seatbelt.
It's common sense not to do a lot of things which may hurt somebody else yet there are still laws for them, because there are people out there lacking common sense
That some people may continue to break a law is not a good argument for that law being scrapped. They break it, they suffer the punishment. That's how laws work.
I don't see any negative effects such as law would.
Not at all. I think it's good that whilst we have the freedom smoke we no fully know the risks involved in smoking. Would you just ban smoking full stop?