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blood on your shirt

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
I was watching a bbc programme on Monday night about young offenders who were talking about the crime they had committed. Some were aware of the laws surrounding the crime but others not and also the length of the prison sentence they would be given. A couple of offenders even said that they think that life should mean life. Do you think that if you take a life it means you should spend the rest of your life behind bars? I do think life should be life. Some of the sentences we have given to this particular crime are far too lenient and should be a lot stiffer. Would you know if your son or daughter go out with a knife with intent to cause harm. Do you think that education does enough to gain you the knowledge you require? Do you know the laws as a young person about carrying knives?
I would like to see a lot more done than what is not being done about the issue. I believe it is our duty in society to help those who need help with realising that it is NOT COOL TO BE FOOL...A KNIFE MEANS LIFE.

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The sentencing guidelines for the courts have been changed in the last few weeks. Expect tougher prison sentences to become the norm for violent incidents, and community punishments for thefts and damage.

    Sentences of all sorts should be tougher. Community punishments should be widespread and publicised so people know that justice is being carried out, and jail sentences for prolific and dangerous offenders need to be long.
    I'm very keen for offenders responsible for theft or damage to be made to put right that damage, instead of working on a project somewhere else, or as well as.
    At least then they are responsible for directly helping their victim.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,212 Skive's The Limit
    Sentances shouldn't be purely about punishement.
    If somebody has served a good length of time in prison and is a changed and rehabilitated person for it, does it really serve society to keep them locked up?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Sentances shouldn't be purely about punishement.
    If somebody has served a good length of time in prison and is a changed and rehabilitated person for it, does it really serve society to keep them locked up?

    :yes:

    That's my opinion on the matter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Sentances shouldn't be purely about punishement.
    If somebody has served a good length of time in prison and is a changed and rehabilitated person for it, does it really serve society to keep them locked up?

    Yes as that's their punishment. Just because they are rehabilitated shouldn't then mean they can come out and enjoy life again. Life maybe would mean life if they had the space to keep people in prison for that amount of time, but it's just not practical.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,212 Skive's The Limit
    squeal wrote: »
    Yes as that's their punishment.

    A policy where sentances are simply about retribution is effectively an 'eye for an eye' policy. I don't believe that a modern civilised society should have such a backward policy.

    It's all about balance.
    A sentance should serves as retribution for the victims, persuasion for others not to commit the same crime, and rehabilitation of the convicted.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    HELL YES If u take a life you give ur up too+rot in jail sentances are far too short too many innocent good people are geting killed these days my friend got stab +died leaving gf(my best friend) +3kids his biological daughter macie never remember her daddy she was only 15mth old at time she been so brave+strong his funeral was beautiful just like he was church was packed inside+out he was only on night out +31yr old the guy who did it who 19 i think get sentenced this month bet he get 10yr+come out 5yr R.I.P PAUL 'GILLY' GILLIGAN:angel: NEVER FORGOTTEN YOUR SMILE ALWAYS IN OUR HEARTS :angel:
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,212 Skive's The Limit
    Aj fan wrote: »
    If u take a life you give ur up too+rot in jail

    Till they die?

    How does society benifit from that?
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The Familys Do Who Lives Have Been Torn Apart Like My Best Friends Did 7mth Ago
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,212 Skive's The Limit
    Aj fan wrote: »
    The Familys Do Who Lives Have Been Torn Apart Like My Best Friends Did 7mth Ago

    That's not what I asked. How does society benifit?

    Of course any punisment should include retribution for victims, but no to the extent where by they get to choose the punishment. There's more to it than just appeasing the victim or victims relatives.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth attitude is kinda childish in this situation. revenge does not benefit society. the difference between revenge/retribution and justice is slim...i completely agree that in certain cases, that life does need to be life, but i also agree that there are not enough spaces in prisons, and whats the point of having people who have not only been rehabiliated but have also become skilled individuals during their time inside?

    there need to be more community sentences for minor crimes, and more community rehabilitation for those near the end of their sentences...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    People say life should mean life, but dont they call it a life sentence, because it is a sentence for taking a life? Not the name and also how long they will serve?

    Im all for rehabilitation of offenders, end of the day our jails are getting full and Id rather be letting out people who have been rehabilitated, than just letting out people who are nearish the end of their sentence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    How does society benefit? Well put it this way if you kill someone with a knife you should go down and stay in prison for life. It is not going to bring back that person you killed is it? Do some of you think that shorter sentances should be given and then on their best behaviour they should be let out and back into society to give them another chance. Some people come out and re-offend. Do we want people like these in society? Also does that as our prisons are getting full that more and more people are committing crimes?...why should we rehabilitate them? Shouldn't parents teach their children from an early age about crime? What about education ....is that failing to help young people to. SO it is acceptable to committ crime? Especially knife crime! I certainly do not want to think that the next person I come across just lashes out with a knife for no reason. Fighting should not be done with a knife we should teach them to fight like we used to do. With fists?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    becks27 wrote: »
    How does society benefit? Well put it this way if you kill someone with a knife you should go down and stay in prison for life. It is not going to bring back that person you killed is it? Do some of you think that shorter sentances should be given and then on their best behaviour they should be let out and back into society to give them another chance. Some people come out and re-offend. Do we want people like these in society? Also does that as our prisons are getting full that more and more people are committing crimes?...why should we rehabilitate them? Shouldn't parents teach their children from an early age about crime? What about education ....is that failing to help young people to. SO it is acceptable to committ crime? Especially knife crime! I certainly do not want to think that the next person I come across just lashes out with a knife for no reason. Fighting should not be done with a knife we should teach them to fight like we used to do. With fists?

    THANK YOU BECKS27 MY POINT EXCATLY R.I.P PAUL 'GILLY'GILLIGAN :angel: :angel:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    That's not what I asked. How does society benifit?

    How does society benefit? If a dangerous person is removed from society, they no longer present a danger to it. Indefenite jail sentences should be reserved for those who are deemed unfit to live amongst the rest of us.

    Saying that I am all for rehabilitation, if it works and if an offender engages with it.


    I went to prison a few weeks back with some young offenders I was working with and we got talking to one of the inmates who is really managing to turn his life around, he even had the guarantee of a decent job when he got out because of all the work he'd been putting in.

    But, he was one of the minority unfortunately.

    I know of another lad who refuses all help, has no education and won't do anything to help us/probation help him. His sole concern is getting on the dole, or robbing from someone else. He is a dangerous, violent individual who's only meaningful contribution to society at the moment would be to remove himself from it. He has no skills, no education, no will to change. What hope do we have with people like him? He worries us sometimes, so God knows how the people in his town feel when they see him.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    +i add my best friend partner who got stab chest+shoulder the guy who did it leon post on facebook hours before 'ifeel like kilin someone' so he WENT OUT ARMED WITH A WEAPON TO INTENTIONALY USE IT + hour later paul was dead +he plead not guilty to murder +he stab before 2 charges was drop the victim woudnt give evidience it on north west news teletext :angel:R.I.P PAUL 'GILLY'GILLIGAN :angel:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    These were some of the knife crimes last year and I am sure that there were lots more in your community?

    London knife crime: Stabbing victim fights for lifeJonathan Haynes and agencies guardian.co.uk, Thursday 3 July 2008 21.50 BST Article historyA man in his early 20s is fighting for life after being stabbed in south London, police said tonight.

    The attack is the latest in a series of stabbings in the capital and comes less than a week after the killing of 16-year-old Ben Kinsella in north London.

    Three men were tonight charged with the murder of the teenager, the brother of former EastEnders actress Brooke Kinsella, who was stabbed to death in Islington in the early hours of Sunday morning.

    Scotland Yard said Juress Kika, 18, Michael Alleyne, 18, and Jade Braithwaite, 19, all from the Islington area, would appear before Highbury magistrates tomorrow.

    In today's incident police officers were called to Beulah Crescent in Thornton Heath, south London, just before 2pm after reports of a knife attack.

    An air ambulance was scrambled but the victim was eventually taken to hospital by road after being treated at the scene.

    A Metropolitan police spokesman said: "Shortly before 2pm we were called to reports of a stabbing in Beulah Crescent, Thornton Heath.

    "He has gone to a south London hospital and is in a life-threatening condition."

    The spokesman said he had been stabbed more than once but that the weapon had not yet been identified.

    On Sunday the bodies of French students Laurent Bonomo and Gabriel Ferez, both 23, were found riddled with knife wounds after a flat fire in New Cross, south-east London.

    Tunisian national Hamouda Bessaad was stabbed to death on Old Kent Road, south-east London, on Monday, while Dee Willis, 28, died after a knife attack in Peckham a day later.
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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well we wil find out soon about sentance coz leon trialfor kiling paul has started this wk at man crown court bet he get 10yr cum out 5yr it should be Life:angel: R.I.P PAUL GILLY GILLIGAN :angel: let u know what he gets
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do we want persistant offenders of knife crime in our community? I feel that they should be taken down and stay down. Why do we want to go out with INTENT....so it is ok to go out with a big knife on your body incase you get attacked after a drunken brawl, or even just walking along the road to stab someone you do not like. There are lots of things we as society need to learn not just targeted at young people here either I mean fully grown adults. How do we combat this? Learn to fight the normal way.....no knife, if you feel you have to fight ....do it right....take a fist it is not on any list to use a fist.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,212 Skive's The Limit
    Whowhere wrote: »
    How does society benefit? If a dangerous person is removed from society, they no longer present a danger to it. Indefenite jail sentences should be reserved for those who are deemed unfit to live amongst the rest of us.

    Of course but that isn't what I'm saying. I havn't been arguing for dangerous people to be let out into society merely that it serves nobody to lock up rehabilitated criminals foir the rest of their days.

    Becks save you copy and paste stories for someboyd else. I've been a victim of knife crime and that doesn't sway my thinking. People make mistakes, and people can change. This is especially true of young people.

    Sentances have to take into account what's best for society, not what's best for the victim.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Skive wrote: »
    Of course but that isn't what I'm saying. I havn't been arguing for dangerous people to be let out into society merely that it serves nobody to lock up rehabilitated criminals foir the rest of their days.



    Fair enough, I agree completely on that point, however I do still think there is a place for tough deterrents in society. I know there are exceptions, bullied kids taking a knife under some misguided belief it will protect them e.t.c. and personally speaking I'm currently in a position where I might have to deal with such an ocurrence. I'd like to think that I'd be able to deal with each case fairly but firmly. Deciding who poses the most risk and those who don't. I've not got it wrong yet.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I know what you are trying to say skive but put yourself in someone elses shoes that has had that son or father stabbed to death. There are lots of other issues surrounding this but I am thinking more for a life sentance should mean life. When you have taken a life innocently then justification should serve the individuals with a life meaning life sentance and not just two or three years. Get out on bail...heard prison is quite cool? Is it? Not been myself. Do you really think that the justice system is fair to the victim....the one who has had their life taken. What kind of life does the family have afterwards.....so I am still sticking to life meaning life for killing someone in the eyes of the law innocently with a knife. There is nothing that will bring that dead person back. Would they like justice?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Just to put forward my view -

    I'm not sure what the basis is for the knife focus? Is the idea that because lots of people use knives they should be punished for it? If they were more original they shouldn't be punished as much? If the idea is to encourage people not to carry knives then aren't you rewarding people for shooting people and carrying guns? - something with a much greater risk of a bystander being hurt.

    I think if we are ever going to consider something as humiliating, barbaric and terrifying as locking people up, without any possibility of parole, then it should be done on the basis of something real - rather than a dislike of a specific weapon.

    I don't believe in the death penalty and I don't believe in imprisonment without parole, so I find the idea of dealing with people in absolutes very difficult to accept.

    You can visit a prison if you'd like to know what it is like - but I'd point out one thing, when someone says 'prison is like a holiday' - if they ever really say that - imagine how bad their life outside is.

    Bail also isn't what people get released on - that's before trial. If they are released after conviction for murder they will spend their entire life under licence, supervised by the probation service and can be immediately recalled to prison for any offense.

    One thing I really do need you to provide some evidence for though - I'm unaware of any murder, not manslaughter, ever in the history of the UK resulting in a 2 or 3 year sentence.

    Ultimately I believe we have an adequate legal system, when correctly understood and employed, to deal with the need for justice, rehabilitation and monitoring.

    The causes and solutions to knife crime and other violent crime simply don't have very much to do with a country's system of punishment. I'd be more interested in solutions to those problems, than calls for arbitrary justice.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So would I also like solutions...one I think is to educate young people about what they can or cannot carry. Maybe to teach them to fight in the normal way with fists...don't like fighting of any sort. I work with young people so it is always an issue to discuss.
  • SkiveSkive No discipline. No morality. No respect. New ForestPosts: 15,212 Skive's The Limit
    becks27 wrote: »
    I know what you are trying to say skive but put yourself in someone elses shoes that has had that son or father stabbed to death.

    Being a relative of a murdered victim does not mean you views on the subject of retribution vs rehabilitation have any more weight. Infact I would say the opposite since any opinion you have is goign to be clouded by emotion.
    The criminal justice system should not be handing out sentance based on emotion.
    That's the reason victims and the relatives of victims don't decide sentances - it's up to a judge who will take more than just retribution into account. That's the way it shoudl be.
    becks27 wrote: »
    Get out on bail...heard prison is quite cool? Is it? Not been myself.

    Contrary to popular belief prison is not an easy ride.
    becks27 wrote: »
    Do you really think that the justice system is fair to the victim....the one who has had their life taken.

    There's nothing fair about being murdered. Nothing is ever going to compensate.

    When a crime is commited in society it is more than just the victim that need to be taken into consideration when sentance are handed out.
    becks27 wrote: »
    What kind of life does the family have afterwards....

    And locking somebody up forever with no chance of parole isn't goign to change that.
    Yesterday is history
    Tomorrow is a mystery
    But today is a gift
    That’s why it’s call the present
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