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I think I might be a Tory convert!
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
And if I were allowed to vote on General Elections, I might just do so for them, if they are really going to do this:
Best policy I've heard of in years. Shame they don't go one better and renationalise the lot while they're at it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2008/sep/29/toryconference.transportTories plan £20bn 180mph rail link instead of Heathrow third runway
A third runway at Heathrow airport would be scrapped by a Tory government that would instead build a £20bn TGV-style high speed rail link between London, Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds.
In one of David Cameron's boldest moves on the environment, the party will today unveil plans to cut 66,000 flights a year from Heathrow by tempting passengers on to the first new rail line north of London in more than a century.
Best policy I've heard of in years. Shame they don't go one better and renationalise the lot while they're at it.
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
Department for Transport would be my guess...
Whilst it sounds a lot, in terms of Government spending it isn't really. By 2015 hopefully the recession will be over and HMT will be getting money in again.
DfT's budget was nearly £13bn in 2007-8 and is going up. That doesn't include local authority and devolved administration spend.
I alway assumed that BAA would put the money up for the 3rd runway, they built terminal 5 after all.
As for the Department of Transport paying for it, I suppose if it is over that longer term then it is entirely possible, but frankly governments in this country have never really been all that good at planning very long term.
If the scheme goes ahead (which I doubt) it will no doubt operate on a premium basis, meaning it'd cost a lot more to travel via it which no doubt will be coupled with funding cuts to the standard network and cancellation of projects such as IEP and the replacement of other rolling stock.
The idea of going to Heathrow high speed is completely and utterly pointless bearing in mind its gonna be on CrossRail and also has HEX which does the journey in about 20 mins.
One thing is clear. Heathrow does not need a third runway or a sixth terminal. BAA and the aviation industry are a bunch of lying greedy scumbags.
With an efficient, functioning high speed rail network we could could cut the number of domestic and short haul flights signinficantly. Indeed, it is nothing short of a disgrace that there are so many domestic flights in this country, considering how small Britain actually is. The focus must be on offering a fast and attractive rail network at reasonable prices, so nobody would consider taking the plane over the train unless they have no other option. Whether we like it or not, what people like is true high speed services that are modern and reliable, and rival planes for journey times. The only way to achieve this is to build a dedicated high speed line. Half-arsed improvements on existing track simply won't cut it.
Scrapping ID cards?
Sounds a good swap to me, although I dont have a great deal of faith in the government getting either project functioning properly.
I rail travelled in France in my younger days and there local service was so bad it made me yearn for BR (which frankly was an absolutely terrible service and much worse than privatisation).
That said I agree there shouldn't be a need to fly to Manchester from London (currently it takes just over 2 hours and by the time you get to airports the time saving isn't much). However though, I think JST is right, the money would be much better spent on 'local' rail rather than prestige projects
That makes a lot of sense, if we are going to reduce the amount of car journeys then investment in 'local' rail is the way to do it.
The actual lack of a high speed line however is a far more serious problem.
The only way in which I'd see justification for giving priority to local services as valid is if new lines were going to be built (or dismantled ones re-opened) with the cash. Though I suspect nobody has that in mind, other than the Cross-Rail project.
I completely agree, Heathrow is far too big and there are far far too many domestic flights especially to places such as Manchester is ridiculous, especially when you consider the fact that Manchester is quicker by Rail anyway and many cases actually a lot cheaper, I've just looked on BA and a same day return a week today (advance purchase) is £214 yet rail is just £40 with the benefits of point to point travel.
Away from the high speed networks rail in countries like France is appauling, reasonably small settlements out of city find that they'll get a service a couple of times a day where a similar size place in the UK will typically get an hourly service. I can see in certain circumstances we need better rail links - especially up to Scotland and 'Crosscountry' (such as Newcastle - Bristol etc) but these can be delivered with improvements to the existing network - I remain sceptical that the amount spent on high speed rail is necessary in a such a small country with cities relatively close together. Not everyone wants to go to London!
New lines are being built and reopened - this is only happening in Scotland and Wales where the regional assemblies have gone for the idea, England is the only place where this is not happening and there are so so many groups and regional commities (http://www.selrap.org.uk/ being one of hundreds) pushing for these lines reopening, there is no will from the government to do anything in England to offer new service oppertunities!
I'd also completely disagree with your suggestion that the network is poorly managed and that is being held back by the 'fraturing' of the network.
However, I believe those improvements can be achieved without spending tens of billions of Pounds in them. Thus we should be able to offer the necessary funding to continue improving the local and commutting services and building a new high speed track.
Incidentally the creation of such line would have a positive knock-off effect on the rest of the network as much needed time slots on conventional track are freed up when the long distance services move to the dedicated line. So local and regional services would (or should) benefit too from it.
Really I think transport in the UK isn't that bad. I'd put the money into local bus services really as round here there is no sunday service which is bad for a village of 10,000 which you could pretty much class as a suburb. And my friend who commutes to birmingham as a student pays about £1500 a year on train fares because his student discount card excludes peak fares which is no good because if he has a 9am lecture... what can he do? Season tickets are worse value than just going on the days he needs to as well.
The whole problem is not of quality or delivery of service but the cost. The UK is a very expensive place to get around, nowhere moreso than london. I mean if you are commuting around london every day you are going to be paying a significant portion of your salary on train, bus and tube fares.
Would they be new - or just upgrades to existing lines. if its new, and given how long planning permission takes for major projects, a start date of 2015 seems optimistic
Indeed, the British public want excellent public services, but we are also a nation of NIMBY's.
Don't worry. A raft of repossession will soon sort that out. Considering the government now guarantees half of the country's mortgages.
Better yet, in exchange for keeping their homes they could be forced to work for ultra low wages building the new railway and we could get it on the cheap.
The Government actually needs to have someone with a damn clue running things - Ruth Kelly knows piss all about the transport industry so why have her as minister for Transport? She actually helped to name a train in Blackburn last week to honour Barbara Castle, despite ample rail connections it is claimed she went from Bolton to Blackburn by car...... :rolleyes:
A new high speed rail line is going to have little or no effect on availability on paths on the mainline network. There are very few true point to point expresses - you may have a express service to Manchester but what about the other places on the services thats are served? A case in point being 1649 Euston to Manchester: This and pretty much every other train on the network would have to run or many people would be left with a lot worse service
This is the big issue - especially if you are gonna try and tunnel through the Pennines between Leeds & Manchester. Its gonna be practically impossible without a hell of a lot of work and money
I guess that's where the £20bn comes from
However, like all figures from opposition they need to be taken with a pinch of salt. Not there fault - we have dozens of people working on major projects in the civil service and can draw on many more, including economists, specialist planners, consultants. And we get budgets wrong. The figures for this will have been cobbled together by a couple of generalists on a budget which probably wouldn't meet the Civil Services coffee bills.