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At least they have the comfort of that option, what was available before this atrocious period of government?
The Labour party has introduced a number of inititives to help people get back in to work.
I don't know the specifics, I apologise, but the New Deal for example, doesn't that give free training to people who have been out of work for 6 months or more?
I apologise if this sounds cold hearted, i'm being overly blunt to express a point but let's not dodge the fact that people have to take responsibility for their own actions too, it's not like the manufacturing industry has disappeared over night.
Its not like these workers were forced in to these jobs, it's not like they haven't had the opportunity to look into the future of their trades.
What could any other government have done to save the manufacturing industry? subsidised it for years?
Encouraged people to by British made goods by putting additional taxes on imported goods? boooom there doubles your inflation that you're already unhappy with.
He could not, and neither could anybody else have kept everybody happy, even 50% of the people 50% of the time considering the fact that (IMO anyway) most (not all) people have far too high expectations of most things in life these days.
edited to add:
I'm really not trying to change your opinion, I just hope you can understand why i think (not even agree) that while I don't think he was the messiah, he has done a great job for this country, I honestly believe looking around each day, seeing the people close to me and their lifes, the country is a much better place in sooo many ways than it was back in 1997.
People pick an area (policing, NHS, Schools etc...) and in turn pick a country to compare with to put a bad view on things... Health care is better in the US... Interest rates are now lower in the EU... Schools are better in Sweden... Crimes lower Finland... OAPs are better off in France... etc...but like for like, over 10 years compared to a single country i think we measure favourably.
doesn't seem to stop the germans does it? :chin:
There's no need for coalminers due to a concerted political effort by Thatcher to make sure there was no need for them. These things don't just happen by themselves.
Pffffffffft
See throughout the entire thread you're full of insightful comments!
You obviously know nowt about New Deal. For the record, I was a P2W worker a couple of years ago. New Deal achieves very little apart from getting the unemployment figures down. The funding has been cut from all the useful training (like HGV, FLT etc), leaving shitty little I.T. and jobsearch courses. A total waste of time.
and for some reason you were unable to put this originally?
Like I said, I don't know the specifics of it all, and you obviously have more knowledge of it than me so I won't disagree that it's not all it's cracked up to be, but "a total waste of time"?
And shitty I.T. courses or not, its providing people with a free opporunity to develop new skills, which can then be built upon (again, not something i have knowledge of, but isn't it free or hugely discounted to people not in work?) or give them a basic understanding and as such a chance of starting a job in that field.
I'm not suggesting people go on these courses then in a year are earning £30 / £40k a year, but were they 10/15 years ago? Was there anything in place to even help getting them back in work, other than the 20 minute long queue at the job centre?
Find out about something, then express an opinion on it.
I see...
Well the fact you've had to explain it shows you really made that point hey.
Doesn't escape the fact that its opened up opportunities regardless of how pathetic you view them to be to people in difficult situations, that weren't available to them before.
Thatcher had the sense to see subsidising a declining industry was pointless. It was obvious we couldn't compete with the cheap coal from Poland without subsidies.
IME, it opened up no opportunities, but it did hinder people. For example, I had a client I had been working with for 9 months on him getting into workign with homeless people. His number came up with ND and he had no option but to put all his other plans on hold for 6 weeks while he went on a shitty "gateway" jobsearch course where they did fuck all except being given the jobs section of a newspaper and told to shut up. ND is about massaging the unemployment figures and very little else.
Government's have no problem subsidising other industries, e.g. the railways or nuclear power. Thatcher made a concerted effort to destroy the miners, trade unions and the left in general. It worked. Don't pretend it wasn't anything other than a political decision.
Was he unable to continue exploring the opportunites available to him in regards to working with homeless people while he was on this course?
Yes. He was lined up to start a course and a voluntary position. Had to go on hold.
Perhaps because they were holding the country to ransom. I would have done exactly the same thing, it was a decision based on what was best for the UK and not because she wanted to destroy the miners.
pfffffffffft*
*you know what this means now
Are you ever willing to listen to others and accept 'shock horror' they might not have the same opinion as you?
Yes, you have a different opinion. And, what? You seem to be somewhat unquestioning as to what actually happened.
Why did that stop him pursuing working with the homeless?
My girlfriend is in a full time job, she doesn't like it as such she's searching for alternative employment.
I'm in a full time job, similarly, I've decided i wanted to do other things, as such i looked for another job.
Just because he was placed on a training course doesn't mean he cannot make alternative plans, especially if the course was something that he didn't want to do.
Sorry i appreciate that the thread has become a bit back and forth with two discussions going on, and i leave work shortly so I will allow you to continue with Calvin, but I certainly take on board your comments, you know far more about the situation that I, but I don't feel that should exempt me from commenting, and back to the original subject I think overall Tony Blairs 10 years have been very good for the country, and I believe that in 10 / 20 years time we'll look back and see it as such.
I think it's a massive shame that people allow Iraq to erase all the positives that have come from his leadership, but do agree it was a fuck up, but he has also made others, which it would IMO be more sensible to focus on.
I've said why, if you care to look.
Just listen to others opinions, you don't have to agree with them, but at least accept people will have different opinions.
The fact you rubbish anyones opinion who doesn't agree with you is just short sighted.
Yes, I read your opinons and I disagree with them. So does Thatcher btw. From her memoirs - "“The coal strike was always about far more than uneconomic pits. It was a political strike."
Why did he have "No option"?
Because he couldn't be around you to guide him through life?
Had all the homeless people found homes when he returned 6 weeks later?
a big vat of black stuff didnt force them to deindustrialise
You are having a laugh. Where the hell were you in 1996?
The mortality rates for cardiac disease has reduced, people with cancer are more likely to survive it and those who die actually have more time from diagnosis to death, you no longer wait 36 hours on a trolley in A&E, you no longer wait 18 months for an outpatient appointment follwed by another 18 months for the X-ray and yet another 18 months for the surgery. There are more doctors and nurses than ever before, fewer people need to go into hospital for treatment, more people have operations as day cases instead of staying over night.
I mean, just what the hell did you want over the past ten years?
Last time I heard, he was working in a hostel. However (as I think I have already said), his plans had to go on hold while he was put on a useless ND scheme.
Maybe you should find out about the realities of these things, rather than swallowing propaganda wholesale?
Another one having a laugh.
The miners strike was about breaking the unions and the NUM were one of the strongest. Scargill was a fool for not seeing it. It's also worth noting that the reason he took the action he did was prvoen to be correct.
Yeah, you're right sorry.
After all one swallow makes a summer an' all...
Where would you suggest i go and find out about this reality of it? since i have a sneaking suspicion that should i come back and it doesn't follow yours it will be dismissed
That was one example among many.
I dunno, work as an education and employment worker for a year or so, talk to some unemployed people, email your nearest Claimant's Union (if they stil exist!), stuff like that. Don't just regurgitate Blairite bullshit.
Self fulfilling prophecy. He forced the coal consumers to look for other sources of coal and hey presto once they found them cheaper they stayed.
And lets be fair if Thatcher was also using the strike for political reasons, so was Scargill, who was trying to bring down the Government.
Under Heath the Tories asked the question - who rules the UK, the elected Government or the Miners Union. The answer was the NUM.
When Thatcher asked the same question it was decided it was going to be the elected Government...