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question aout how abortions work

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
firstly, im really really sorry if this topic is inappropriate or upsets anyone, that isnt my intention, im just looking to learn.

i was watching a tv programme a while ogo, could've been casualty/holby city, and the subject of abortion came up!
im just wondering what are the different ways of performin an abortion? ive heard it depends on how far through the pregnancy you are+that if it's only just begun you can just take tablets - is this true?
i know this is a sensitive subject, but i guess im just looking for information to learn. thank you to anyone that can help
L+C
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Do you mean MAP or do you mean something that the doctors at the hsopital have to give you? I think I've heard about the tablet - you give birth to a stillborn baby or something?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    no, not the MAP! it was a tablet they give u at the hospital and i think it terminates the pregnancy early on+you have a very heavy bleed, not an actual birth, as the foetus is barely developed?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This website may answer a few questions.

    http://www.fwhc.org/abortion/ab-procedures.htm
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    In the early stages you can be given an abortion pill. It's a high concentration of hormones that essentially flushes the embryo out of your body and is excreted naturally.

    When the pregnancy is further advanced there needs to be an operation. At this point the foetus is developing human characteristics and there's a debate over whether or not it can feel pain. I'm not sure, but i think the operation involves using some kind of hook to pull the foetus out of the womb. It's been a while since biology class at school though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    satehen wrote: »
    In the early stages you can be given an abortion pill. It's a high concentration of hormones that essentially flushes the embryo out of your body and is excreted naturally.

    When the pregnancy is further advanced there needs to be an operation. At this point the foetus is developing human characteristics and there's a debate over whether or not it can feel pain. I'm not sure, but i think the operation involves using some kind of hook to pull the foetus out of the womb. It's been a while since biology class at school though.

    Don't you take two pill? The first one cutting off the oxygen supply and the second what you described?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Like i said it's been a loooong time since biology.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    this may be abit graphic and alot of you might not want to know, so i apologise in advanced.. being at a roman catholic school, they thought it would scare the life out of us to show us an abortion taking place, via the scan things u usually see the baby on when having a check up etc.

    Basically, from what I saw.. they have this tube, works like a hoover I guess, it's suction is so strong that it pulls the tiny baby apart, literally, until the 'bits' are small enough to come out. Meanwhile, on this scan you can physically see the baby, at such an early stage, struggle to stay away from the suction.
    thinking about it now, this is probably an extremely late on abortion, but never the less it was nasty to see.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Janjan wrote: »
    this may be abit graphic and alot of you might not want to know, so i apologise in advanced.. being at a roman catholic school, they thought it would scare the life out of us to show us an abortion taking place, via the scan things u usually see the baby on when having a check up etc.

    Basically, from what I saw.. they have this tube, works like a hoover I guess, it's suction is so strong that it pulls the tiny baby apart, literally, until the 'bits' are small enough to come out. Meanwhile, on this scan you can physically see the baby, at such an early stage, struggle to stay away from the suction.
    thinking about it now, this is probably an extremely late on abortion, but never the less it was nasty to see.
    what a horrible thing to show kids
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeah well thats RC schools for ya!

    The most common I think is a D&C which stands for dilation and curratege(sp?)
    They dilate the cervix, and remove everything thats in the womb - the womb lining and the embryo with it. Its the same procedure they use to empty any retained products after an incomplete miscarriage too or sometimes even for very heavy periods.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why did i look at this thread when i'm eating maltesers. :no:

    i went to a catholic school and i'm sure we were shown something similar.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i'm certainly glad i got regected by the catholic school i originally applied for!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We had visitors in too xsazx from LIFE or something similar an old man who showed us horrific pictures which made me cry! Not because I disagree with abortion or not because I agree with abortion just because it was far too graphic for how old I was and I was not expecting it. Plus I am a cryer at anything emotional anyway.

    That is no help to the OP, sorry!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well im completely pro-choice, but noone wants to see images like that. We all know what it is theyre removing, of course its going to look horrible. Its not exactly a nice procedure, and i dont think that even pro-choicers are going to be under any disillusion that a foetus is never going to look a bit or a lot human at some point.

    I get fairly grossed out watching most operations, or even childbirth programs make my eyes water.
    Graphic programs like that WILL have an effect on people. They only show them to schoolkids to push an agenda though.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well im completely pro-choice, but noone wants to see images like that. We all know what it is theyre removing, of course its going to look horrible. Its not exactly a nice procedure, and i dont think that even pro-choicers are going to be under any disillusion that a foetus is never going to look a bit or a lot human at some point.

    :yes: i'm not really sure what point they're trying to make, an abortion is hardly pleasant. I'm sure women don't enjoy having them, and i think it's disgusting that they ridicule doctors etc for them, yet try to guilt trip women into going through with a pregnancy that they don't want.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have never seen one of those abortion videos, but I did see a 12 week old foetus in a museum, and IMHO that would be a far more influential thing to show teenagers to make them think twice about abortion. You hear so many times that in the early stage a foetus is "just a ball of cells", but it's a ball of cells that looks like a tiny, tiny human from very early on. I think realising that is as likely to dissuade people from having an abortion as an abortion video would, and it's not disturbing or upsetting.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well at 12 weeks, the foetus is pretty much formed - all it has to do is grow.

    why would you want to dissauade teenagers from having an abortion anyway if they wanted one? Theres a high enough teenage accidental pregnancy rate as it is.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well at 12 weeks, the foetus is pretty much formed - all it has to do is grow.

    Exactly, but how many people realise that?

    What I mean is that those kind of abortion videos are clearly meant to dissuade people from having an abortion, and whether or not it's right to do that or not, there are enough people who think it is right that dissuasion is going to be practised in some schools. I just think there's a better way to go about it than gruesome shock tactics.

    Also there's the school of argument that if teenagers are dissuaded from considering abortion as an option for them, they'll be more likely to practise safe sex to avoid getting into a position where they have to make that decision. I'm not saying I agree with this argument or not, just putting it out there.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Basically up to 9 weeks gestation, a person can have a medical abortion where 2 sets of tablets are taken. The first set of tablets stop the embryo growing, the second set of tablets taken either 24 or 48 hours later cause powerful contractions to expell the pregnancy. It's presented as a nice simple option (and often the cheapest) however, it can be a very long, drawn out process, and has a failure rate, which would have to be treated by surgery.

    Early surgical abortions are performed by MVA, whereby a suction pressure of 26mmHg (I often hear antis talking about Hoover pressures :rolleyes: ) suctions out the pregnancy. This can take place up to 14 weeks.

    After 14 weeks, the pregnancy can be terminated either by medical means (usually reserved for people who have had a wanted pregnancy, but for whatever reason can no longer continue with it) or by a D&E whereby a combination of forceps and suction is used to remove the pregnancy.

    That's how safe, legal abortions are done. For all the foetus bleating out there (I'm amazed with all the debunking they still show kids the 'Silent Scream'), you might want to research how illegal abortions are carried out, 19 million women go through them afterall...
    Also there's the school of argument that if teenagers are dissuaded from considering abortion as an option for them, they'll be more likely to practise safe sex to avoid getting into a position where they have to make that decision.

    You'd think. The reality is pretty different. It only causes shame, denial and more likely an abortion at a late-term gestation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    go_away wrote: »
    Basically up to 9 weeks gestation, a person can have a medical abortion where 2 sets of tablets are taken. The first set of tablets stop the embryo growing, the second set of tablets taken either 24 or 48 hours later cause powerful contractions to expell the pregnancy. It's presented as a nice simple option (and often the cheapest) however, it can be a very long, drawn out process, and has a failure rate, which would have to be treated by surgery.

    Early surgical abortions are performed by MVA, whereby a suction pressure of 26mmHg (I often hear antis talking about Hoover pressures :rolleyes: ) suctions out the pregnancy. This can take place up to 14 weeks.

    After 14 weeks, the pregnancy can be terminated either by medical means (usually reserved for people who have had a wanted pregnancy, but for whatever reason can no longer continue with it) or by a D&E whereby a combination of forceps and suction is used to remove the pregnancy.

    That's how safe, legal abortions are done. For all the foetus bleating out there (I'm amazed with all the debunking they still show kids the 'Silent Scream'), you might want to research how illegal abortions are carried out, 19 million women go through them afterall...



    You'd think. The reality is pretty different. It only causes shame, denial and more likely an abortion at a late-term gestation.
    What does D&E stand for?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Another question, is there a legal time limit for abortions to take place in the UK, or can it be done up to 9 months?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bluewisdom wrote: »
    Another question, is there a legal time limit for abortions to take place in the UK, or can it be done up to 9 months?

    There is a legal limit, but I'm not 100% sure what it is. 26 weeks rings a bell in my head, but someone who knows more will be able to tell you exactly.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bluewisdom wrote: »
    Another question, is there a legal time limit for abortions to take place in the UK

    24 weeks, although few are carried out after 20 weeks
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm pro-choice, but only up to a few months. After that my liberal views start to become a little more hazy. I think what is more important than abortions is the education of safer sex in the first place. There is no need for such "accidents" to happen! You miss a pill, so use a condom! Your condom spilts, so take the MAP! And if you really are sensible you chose two methods, such as the pill and condom, because after all no method (apart from abstinance or sterilisation) is 100% fail proof.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bluewisdom wrote: »
    What does D&E stand for?

    Dilatation and Evacuation i think.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    D&E stands for Dilation and Evacuation, usually done after 14 weeks gestation as the foetus is bigger, and it is a lot safer for the woman. Misoprostol is used to cause the cervix to dilate, then the termination takes place a couple of hours later, usually under the guideance of ultrasound to ensure the uterus is properly cleared, to avoid any chances of infection.

    As MoK said, the legal limit is 24 weeks, however, for cases of severe foetal abnormality, or the woman's life is at risk, it is legal up until birth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    There is no need for such "accidents" to happen!

    Really? Gosh! I'd love to know about this method of contraception that's 100% effective, with no contraindications and no side effects. Then again, you do mention it yourself at the end of the paragraph that no method is 100% effective, so I guess accidents can happen after all...? Not to mention the pregnancies that were wanted, so no contraception was used in the first place, and in these circumstances, they are most likely to happen at a later gestation where something was detected at the 20 week scan.

    You do realise that not all people can take the pill as it's not medically safe for them to do so? The same would go with emergency contraception. I've seen enough women who have used pills and condoms, yet still get pregnant.

    Sterilisation and vasectomy is not 100% effective either. We had a patient who had become pregnant twice after a tubal ligation.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Did you complete skip over the part where i listed the different ways that can prevent accidents from happening? The back up plans??
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No, I was just pointing out I've seen pregnancies result from those 'back up' plans and that not all individuals can use the methods you suggested. For someone who claims to be pro-choice and having liberal views, it doesn't sound it! I'm quite happy to use my coil alone, I have no intention to combine it with condoms just because a few individuals may think it'll protect me from terminating an unwanted pregnancy, should it result in that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Mifepristone

    Voila.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RU486

    Offer only good for the first two months of your first trimester.
    Much less tramatic and invasive than the alternative.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Much less tramatic and invasive than the alternative.

    Obviously much less invasive, but less traumatic? No way. People often assume that a medical abortion means popping a pill, getting a period and going on your way. The contractions caused by misoprostol are very intense, and very painful - there can also be a *lot* of bleeding. I've seen grown women take the tablets, leave the clinic, then come back 30 minutes later, bend double in agony and very worried as clinics won't often tell them how intense it can be (afterall, there's a reason that it's presented as the cheapest option.)

    It can be a pretty long, drawn out process, it's not uncommon for people to still be passing blood and tissue 2 - 3 weeks after taking the second tablets. There's also the failure rate. It's currently presented as 2%, but I wouldn't be surprised that it's much higher. We always make an appointment for the women 2 weeks after the termination for an ultrasound scan to check that the uterus is clear - some turn up to this appointment, a lot of them do not - and the ones who don't, and the medication has failed will have a continuing pregnancy, some don't notice the pregnancy has continued until the 2nd trimester, and all failed medical abortions have to be either managed by more misoprostol or surgery.

    Not trying to scare monger or anything, but we're getting more people choosing the medical option, thinking it's more 'natural' and it isn't helped by the media painting a picture of an abortion being in the woman's lunch hour and she then merrily pops back to her normal life. If I had to recommend a termination option to anyone, I'd always say to go with the surgery under a general anaesthetic.
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