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I have a good idea, seeing as we are talking about US healthcare here.
I'm not certain but I'd say it was a good guestimate to suggest that $$$$ is in there somewhere.
Hopefully this isn`t seen as patronising but I believe you are intelligent enough to know that "the state" can only ensure that care is in place by inflicting or threatening to inflict violence on at least one individual (more likely,a good deal more).
(That fact is accepted by many.I have been told this a good few times on the Site.You give me the impression that you also accept this fact).
However, I have noticed you have seemingly become quite emotional in this thread at an individual`s treatment at the hands of others.
But in order to prevent this treatment you advocate the action in my first paragraph.
Surely,that IS inequality in your proposed treatment of those two particular individuals.
If the reason they did this thing (which is sick IMO) to her was that she would be easierly cared for, why didn't they just kill her? No one would have to care for her then.
On the other hand, I believe people should have some level of respect for the human body, their own and other people's, and not do anything so unnatural to it if it's not necessary.
Think it would actually end her life.
As for hacking the body, it's done all the time to make people's lives easier, just because it's towards our 'normality' its deemed to be a good thing.
She was a psychological mess before, now she's a physical mess as well. Nicely done.
If part of her body wasn't maturing like 'normal' everyone would be all in favour of altering that, in many ways this isn't actually very different to that. Big difference is it isn't forcing her towards being 'normal' how general society likes so it's less acceptable.
Not much of the same, but I've said what I had to say. My previous post is clear and answers the one you posted after it too.
EDIT: Better yet, "Poor guy has no left leg, let's cut the right one too so he'll be able to "stand" without falling, since we can't make a prosthesis."
http://ashleytreatment.spaces.live.com/blog/
I mean for fucks sake no one would have their kid hacked open etc if there wasn'ta damn good reason!
So, by his logic, it would be ok to rape a child if that child doesn't know what rape is ?
Munchausen's by proxy.
I find it extremely hard to even begin to comphrehend the situation the parents are in. From an outsiders perspective I think it would be better to leave the child be.
It's sad that children are born like this , their life will never be complete. Not that they'll know any better of course.
It makes my blood boil the way people with disabilities, especially children, are treated. And I especially dislike the argumentative line that seems to be going on here about 'if the parent's think it's best, then its their choice'. Bullshit. It doesn't work that way, just because they are her parents doesn't mean they own her person and therefore can choose to remake her to their taste so she'll be less of a burden. Even with a mind of a 6 month old or whatever, she's still a person and therefore has the right to develop as naturally as possible.
I left that part off because I didn't understand it. As far as I know, they're not going to perform female circumcision on Ashley. I'm also not aware that female circumcision is a regular practice in America. So I don't see how it fits in with anything I've said. Feel free to enlighten me, though...
No it's not. But a lot of people don't consider this to be child abuse and besides, you weren't just calling the parents and doctors sick, you were calling everyone who agrees with the decision sick as well. And that's what I think is rude.
I think that I've read it. But I'm confused about what you're trying to say... if hysterectomies were being performed routinely on disabled girls who would never go on to bear children, that's surely not something to be classed as just a statistic? Yeah one person matters, I'm not denying that, but in my view this one little girl isn't a tragedy because the surgery has been agreed on according to her individual needs rather than "because we did it before we might as well do it again." If doctors started saying that, that's what would be a tragedy, and IMO that would be when we should stand up and say "This is wrong."
You're argument was that [to paraphrase] if many people think that the care is okay then it's rude to suggest it's sick. In parts of this world there are many people who think that female circumcision is okay. I disagree, I think it's sick and I will say so. I take the same stance on the US approach to male circumcision and I take the same stance here. I believe it is sick and I will exercise, what I see as my right, to hold that opinion and express it.
I believe that operating, unnecessarily, on someone is abuse. I am not alone in this opinion and, in fact, that is part of UK law. It's assault.
I believe in this case that surgery isn't warranted. If you read the blog much of the parents comments are about making life easier for themselves, about the possibility of future ailments (NB it's possible that I will get prostate cancer, but no doctor will remove my prostate just in case) and several guesses about her comfort based on some spurious assumptions. To ,e that doesn't make a case.
I refer to people on here supporting it because many of the reasons given are around the premise that she is "less" of a human being than anyone who posts here. that because she is disabled some of the, what I believe to be, basic rules about how we treat another human don't apply.
Indeed, the quote is alleged to be "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." You said, just "one". It doesn't matter how many people are involved, my conjecture is that if a line has to be drawn then why not at "one".
Would you support this if it was routine?
Sorry, you kind of answered my point [above] here.
If it is wrong to do it for the many, then why is it okay to do it for one, and what makes you think it would be wrong to do this routinely in similar circumstances.
Doctors will use this case, as will parents of similar children, as an example in the future. I have no doubt that more parents will now consider it and more such operations will follow. That is how medicine works - there always has to be a ground breaker and this it one such event.
Regardless of the message this send to disabled people around the world (that their dignity doesn't matter as long as they aren't a hassle), it is wonrg IMHO to use surgery, not to treat an ailment, to make a carers life easier.
If she was suffering from problems with her breasts or periods then I wouldn't have such concerns but she is and possibly might not.
I had to quote that again for anyone who missed it.
Apparently it's okay to violate someone's dignity if they don't realise. Note that he didn't say it wasn't violated.
I think that is a much bigger step to take.
I have no doubt that this child's parents love her deeply and care a great deal about her and so her death wouldn't have been an option.
This isn't about them not offering her any care, it's about them making it easier for themselves to offer the care because the state doesn't so they are having to cope on their own.
Can we not hijack this thread into another taxation is theft [with violence] discussion?
I'll answer though.
The state is supposed to be our representative, we contrbute through our own will, the state cannot survive without the will of it's citizens (as has been shown by revolutions throughout history). I have no doubt taht the state in question has a mandate from the people to deny, what I consider to be, proper care in this case.
Though, with my knowledge of the US approach to healthcare and disability specifically, that doesn't surprise me. How many millions of US citizens don't have access to decent healthcare?