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Iran hosts "Holocaust conference"

SystemSystem Posts: 8,583 Community Managers
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has met delegates at a conference in Iran questioning the Holocaust, drawing widespread international criticism.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel condemned it and British PM Tony Blair called it "shocking beyond belief".

Iran says it wants to debate what it calls taboos surrounding the Holocaust. Conference participants include white supremacists and Holocaust deniers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/6172807.stm

What a fucking twat.

Nice collection of 'academics' he got himself there... :rolleyes:

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If everyone just looks the other way and doesnt react then hopefully they'll get tired of this sort of thing.

    Aside from the strange nature of this 'academic' conference, there should be debate on every issue, locking someone up because they say the Holocaust didnt happen is bonkers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    eh, bunch of jerks acting like jackasses, nothing special.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    eh, bunch of jerks acting like jackasses, nothing special.
    'zactly.

    Misinformation is put out everywhere.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    on a personal level its so annoying that muslims are digging deeper holes for themselves.

    please ignore them
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hazell wrote:
    on a personal level its so annoying that muslims are digging deeper holes for themselves.

    :confused:

    They are? With what?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    with bombastic press conferences regarding the holocaust despite very strong facts to the contrary.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hazell wrote:
    on a personal level its so annoying that muslims are digging deeper holes for themselves.
    You should find it more annoying that some people think that twats like this in any way represent mainstream muslim opinion in our country.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Nice acedemic choice.

    I dare say Stormfront are loving it up along with the BNP.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He's a bit of an arse really isn't he? The hell are White Supremists doing helping out Iran anyway!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You should find it more annoying that some people think that twats like this in any way represent mainstream muslim opinion in our country.

    not really, i mean people are stupid anyway, but if muslims didnt start shouting about how great they are and and how everything else is evil, less people would think these people represent muslim opinion.

    saying that, it is idiotic if people think they represent mainstream muslim opinion.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Renzo wrote:
    He's a bit of an arse really isn't he? The hell are White Supremists doing helping out Iran anyway!

    I dunno, what was the USA doing helping the Mujhadeen?

    What was the Catholic Church doing helping Nazis?

    Some people will do anything to furthur themselves and extend thier network.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hazell wrote:
    not really, i mean people are stupid anyway, but if muslims didnt start shouting about how great they are and and how everything else is evil, less people would think these people represent muslim opinion.

    saying that, it is idiotic if people think they represent mainstream muslim opinion.

    Don't you think that's a bit of a stereotype?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hazell wrote:
    not really, i mean people are stupid anyway, but if muslims didnt start shouting about how great they are and and how everything else is evil, less people would think these people represent muslim opinion.

    saying that, it is idiotic if people think they represent mainstream muslim opinion.


    unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) the many are tarnished by the few. sweeping statements about "muslims" wont help anyone.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hazell wrote:
    with bombastic press conferences regarding the holocaust despite very strong facts to the contrary.

    1.3bn people held a press conference? Damn that must have been a sight. What building was big enough to get them all in?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    hazell wrote:
    saying that, it is idiotic if people think they represent mainstream muslim opinion.

    You admit to being an idiot then, becuase this: "its so annoying that muslims are digging deeper holes for themselves" suggest that is precisely what you think.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You admit to being an idiot then, becuase this: "its so annoying that muslims are digging deeper holes for themselves" suggest that is precisely what you think.

    I think you've misinterpreted what hazell has said there. If you think about it again it makes sense. A group of high profile muslims lead a conference on 'did the holocaust happen' and it is going to cause negative backlash for other muslims.

    The planners of the conference, if they're muslim, therefore could be said to be doing more PR for the faith than good. It would be like the Pope or a Christian cardinal saying something offensive. It's only one Christian, but as hazell pointed out, people are stupid...

    As for the original story, let them talk about it. In my experience people are far too sensitive about anti-semitism and things like that, I'm not sure why but there we are. The holocaust may way well be the greatest single (collective) act of human... barbarity the planet has ever seen. But by condemning discussion of it surely damages it's credibility, because we are just to accept it as fact?

    Of course, when there is discussion about anything, there will be those with loony arguments (as we've seen on this board plenty of times ;)) but it's up to the people to make up their own minds. I doubt many people will be swayed by this conference, it's painfully obvious they're just putting on a show to piss people off.

    Seems like it's working :chin:. As budda said:
    If everyone just looks the other way and doesnt react then hopefully they'll get tired of this sort of thing.

    :yes:

    eta: also wanted to point out the journalism in that article.
    The BBC's Frances Harrison in Tehran describes the conference as a roll call of the world's most infamous Holocaust deniers - all delighted that Iran has given them the oxygen of publicity.

    I mean, how did he get a job as a journalist? I thought the BBC were supposed to be balanced?
    Many Iranians must be wondering why they have the right to deny the Holocaust with impunity, but not to question their own leaders without risking jail, our correspondent says.

    Again, a journalist should report, not make (or imply) judgement. In my opinion anyway. Otherwise it will just get ridiculous where news will descend into anecdotes which will descend into complete fiction.

    Or are we there already?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I have to agree, I see no reason why this should not be allowed to discussed.. Surely freedom of speech is one of the most basic of our rights?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    According to the article,
    Opening the conference on Monday, Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said the aim of the conference was "not to deny or confirm the Holocaust".

    Nobody prepared to give the benefit of the doubt ?

    ( I wonder if Manouchehr Mottaki said that with a capital H, or is the "journalist" adding more opinion :chin: )
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It's an absolutely ridicilous conference which is being held for no reason other than to allow the Iranian President to piss off the rest of the world. To ask questions about the official version of the Holocaust is legitimate. To deny that it ever happened is downright crazy. The denial of the Holocaust, whether it be by racist scumbags like the BNP, or from some "Mad Mullah", as the tabloids call them, in any corner of the globe is plain daft.

    The weight of historical evidence shows that it did happen. What about the millions of stories of Jews, gypsies and all the other groups in society whom the Nazis didn't like, that suddenly went missing and were never to be seen again? I understand those with mental health difficulties were sent to these death camps. By that theory, I would have only a slim chance of life under Nazi Germany.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is a bit hypocritical to defend the right of free speach when it comes to a direct insult to someones religion, but to deny freedom of speach to say something regarding the Holocaust.

    Effectivly what your saying is youve got freedom of speach as long as you agree with me, as long as you fit into our narrow definition of whats "acceptable"

    He's doing it to prove a point about freedom of speach he feels that if Europe has the freedom to critersise Islam, then we should be happy to allow freedom of speach and debate on any issue
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    It is a bit hypocritical to defend the right of free speach when it comes to a direct insult to someones religion, but to deny freedom of speach to say something regarding the Holocaust.

    Effectivly what your saying is youve got freedom of speach as long as you agree with me, as long as you fit into our narrow definition of whats "acceptable"

    He's doing it to prove a point about freedom of speach he feels that if Europe has the freedom to critersise Islam, then we should be happy to allow freedom of speach and debate on any issue
    Who's saying they shouldn't be allowed freedom of speech? We're just saying that denying the holocaust in the face of overwhelming evidence is retarded.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Is a stunt, basically. And from a certain point of view it has some merit. Iran is testing the alleged love of freedom of speech by the West by waiting to see if the same people who said there is nothing wrong with publishing cartoons about Muhammad complain about the conference itself.

    But it also has a darker side. Despite claiming to be just an objective, unbiased 'study', Ahmadinejad has repeteadly questioned the Holocaust, and the conference has attracted some of the worst scum on earth.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    According to the article,



    Nobody prepared to give the benefit of the doubt ?

    ( I wonder if Manouchehr Mottaki said that with a capital H, or is the "journalist" adding more opinion :chin: )

    Suprised I'd ever say this, but bloody good point seeker.

    You all seem to have read what western newspapers and politicians have to say. Have any of you actually read any of what the Iranian organisers have to say, or any of the delegates? Have any of you attended the conference? Are they really denying that there was a "holocaust" or persecution of Jews in Europe? Certainly some of the delegates don't. The reality is that you don't really know whats being said, you're just reading western/European opinion pieces on the matter.

    You're basing your opinion on the matter on the words of people who are not hostile to Iran, but living in countries where it illegal - on the threat of a prison sentence and public ostracisation - to agree with them, or even cover whats going on from an academic viewpoint. Thats a very dangerous attitude to take.

    As a historian I find the weight of evidence showing the Holocaust occurred and that it was a deliberate act on the behalf of the Third Reich overwhelming. But that doesn't mean it is "certain" or beyond any questions. The fact that this conference seems to have been organised out of spite and racist attitudes should not detract from the point that is being made: it is perfectly legal in Europe to say certain things about historical persons and events that grossly offend certain people (e.g. the prophet Mohammed, Muslims) but illegal to ask questions of other historical events that might grossly offend others (i.e. the Holocaust, Jews).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    carlito wrote:
    it is perfectly legal in Europe to say certain things about historical persons and events that grossly offend certain people (e.g. the prophet Mohammed, Muslims) but illegal to ask questions of other historical events that might grossly offend others (i.e. the Holocaust, Jews).

    Quite so.

    The best example that springs to mind is the current heresy show trial taking place in Mannheim, Germany.

    Bizarre, even in the weird world of Legalland.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Renzo wrote:
    The hell are White Supremists doing helping out Iran anyway!

    I find most of them are actually White Nationalists and not Supremacists, in either case they both have an affinity in their dislike of Jews.

    It's not illegal to deny the holocaust in Iran, therefore I see no problem with it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    seeker wrote:
    Quite so.

    The best example that springs to mind is the current heresy show trial taking place in Mannheim, Germany.

    Bizarre, even in the weird world of Legalland.
    Which one is this? Haven't heard of it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Which one is this? Haven't heard of it.

    Zundel
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what i meant was CERTAIN muslims create a big hoohah when and then people beleive that this is the mainstream muslim opinion

    as i said people are stupid and that includes msuims
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    On Iran's part it's a pretty stupid stunt in that it further isolates the country. Holocaust denial in itself should not be illegal, although, I do understand why it is illegal in some countries and I can understand why few people in Germany would be comfortable with legalising it. Holocaust denial usually equates to anti-Semitism because almost always it is explained or implied that the Holocaust is a Jewish invention designed to advance Jewish interests. Then come all the other classic, discredited conspiracy theories.

    No decent historian has ever said that the occurrence of the Holocaust is questionable let alone fictitious. The ADL keep track of Holocaust deniers. Unfortunately, the naive cannot distinguish between scholarship and the pseudo-academic anti-Semitism of the likes of the Institute for Historical Review.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,328 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The ADL keep track of Holocaust deniers. Unfortunately, the naive cannot distinguish between scholarship and the pseudo-academic anti-Semitism of the likes of the Institute for Historical Review.

    Some of the not-so-naive cannot distinguish between the ADL and the Inquisition
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