If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options
Essential support for under 25s
Essential support for under 25s
Take a look around and enjoy reading the discussions. If you'd like to join in, it's really easy to register and then you'll be able to post. If you'd like to learn what this place is all about, head here.
Comments
The Charter is just some utopian pipe dream idealists came up with to prevent another Hitler like regime coming along. It's as useful and relevant as an underwater hairdyer.
If it isn't a religious requirement then the spiel about religious freedom is irrelevant.
Whereas I believe that when in Rome you should behave as the Romans do.
I wouldn't dream of walking around a devoutly Muslim country in something offensive to them or in something completely against the social norms and practices of that country; I fail to see why the same courtesy cannot be extended in return.
The jilbab has no place in a civilised society. It is morally repugnant and nothing more than a symbol of oppression. I honestly don't believe that most women "choose" to wear it, in the same way women don't "choose" female circumcision, and it is our place to intervene.
After all, if they don't like the law, they can move somewhere where the laws are more suitable to them. I hear Tehran is lovely at this time of year.
We're not talking about religious dogma, it's the clothing.
Well, as Kermit has mentioned, it's not a religious thing at all to wear the Burqa whereas for Catholics, wearing a cross is. The Burqa is a cultural thing and if the government wants people not to wear it in public then that's their choice.
And the claims to the contrary from the Dutch minister sound like the biggest load of bollocks ever, and a feeble attempt to justify their actions.
Then why ban it then? Other than people just not liking the look of it.
I dont really like looking at scantily dressed fat people, can they be banned?
The Dutch have a bit of a thing of late when it comes to Muslims; like that politician who was eventually murdered who spoke the about the Dutch culture and way of life being diluted by letting too many Muzzies in the country, and all that bollocks. A lot of people there appear to agree with that.
I think that anything that covers your face interupts conversation. I would tend to take of my hat when speaking to someone who doesn't know me (because the visor can obscure their view), and would rather that people pull down scarves and take off motorcycle helmets when talking to me, even if I know them. I feel the same way about the burqa etc, I wouldn't feel like I'd ever get to know someone if I never saw their face, especially if it was technically completely acceptable for them to just cover their head.
Not the point at all.
Why isnt it?
The dutch dont seem to like looking at those in a burka, and I dont like looking at fat people, unless either they can prove the burka is causing harm or I can prove that fat people are more likely to harm me, I dont think either should be banned.
Do you not see the irony in this statement?
If BA can get away with this with barely a murmur of complaint, then I see no problem with banning a disgusting piece of social clothing which serves no purpose other than denigrating the position of women.
I'd say that drinking massive amounts of booze and passing out in the street has no place in a civilised society, but banning it wouldnt help.
Do you think these women (who you all assume are repressed by men) are going to get any more liberal if it was banned?
It is right to ban this item of clothing from public wearing. It will protect women from their violent families as they won't be able to be forced into wearing it.
If British Airways are allowed to ban the wearing of religious clothing, then banning an item of social clothing shouldn't have attract any complaints whatsoever. It is interesting, though, that the same people who support the right to wear the burqa in public don't support the right to wear a cross in public.
No, it will just mean they always stay at home. Those that are really oppressed will continue to be so, women like the one who lives on my street would probably just change to a head scarf but she'd always be pissed off about it and it would achieve nothing in terms of public safety or social interaction.
You don't see the irony then. Telling people how to dress in the name of freedom is weird in my book.
No, instead of families forcing people to dress a certain way (leaving aside of course the fact that some Muslim women choose to wear it), we have the state forcing people to dress in a certain way.
Hmmmmmmmmm.
And all the people who fit that description over a weekend are arrested?
Oops, thought Kermit had posted the original article from the other month. Lol
This is such an important point. I don't think women should have to wear the burka, but it's not my place to tell them not to wear it. And for those that currently wear a burka, they're hardly going to shout 'hurrah!' and tear it off their faces if this law gets passed. They're going to not be allowed - either by their personal beliefs or those of their family - to go to these public places. Which to me sounds like a fairly hateful premise, and quite similar to the Taliban-related horror stories we heard about Afghanistan.
Because fat people dressing bad has nothing to do with Burqa's, why people wear them and why the government wants to stop people wearing them in public.
Physical harm, no. Social harm, then yes. Dressing so differently than to those who live in the country causes polarisation and social problems. And this isn't about how whitey dresses, there are millions of Muslims who choose not to wear the Burqa and rightly so imo.
Forcing someone to reveal their face isnt suddenly going to make community relations any better, it will make them worse. Do you think if the government of NI banned celtic and rangers kits it would make community relations better there?
Of course it won't, it's exactly why they're wearing them in the first place, because community relations are so bad. Encouraging them however to integrate with society publically is a step forward though. Maybe after we get down to basics and realise they're no different to us, then they can walk around with their Burqa's but as things stand, it's not helping matters at all.
As for your second point, yeh it probably would actually. You can get a right kicking here if you walk down certain areas with a rangers or celtic top on.
I would be shocked if those women who currently wear burqas for whatever reason uncover their face in public because of this law. It is much more likely they will stay or be strongly encouraged to stay at home. Which is going to do the exact opposite of encouraging them to integrate with society publically, no?
Wow, such a simplisticly bad answer, showing you didnt read a thing of what i said. What i feel is only one voice and it is the many, the majority of voices that are at work in this entire debate, which i would have thought you would have noticed this is all about but clearly not.
It is not about being uncomfortable though i am sure many many people are with people who hide their identities for no reason. It is about why they hide them and the fact it should not be allowed unless there is a reason. Covering ones face with scarf in winter to keep warm is completely different to covering ones face with a scarf in summer when there is no need for it except to hide ones self from being identified, which is the entire point of what i have being saying, and why i agree with Kermit on some of his points.
Glad to see you actually pay attention when you read a post though :thumb:
So in other words women in burkas are covering their faces so they can get away with crimes and social disorder?
Is that how it should work, unless you can prove you've got nothing to hide you are guilty?
But to these women there IS a valid reason. Perhaps not one you or I understand or even accept - and we don't have to. The reason they cover themselves is because of their own or their families religious beliefs. And of course not every Muslim chooses to cover themselves in this way but so what? These do. It's a personal belief.
Believe me, if there was some way to suddenly convince a religion as a whole that a certain aspect of their faith was unnecessary, I'd be all for it - and certainly not just in relation to aspects of the Islamic faith, there's plenty in other faiths which read a bit wrong occasionally. I'd rather women of all faiths could be free to wear what they please - but this law is intending to do the opposite of that, which does not sit well with me at all.