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Foreign lorries "threaten lives"

SystemSystem Posts: 8,627 Staff Team
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/real_story/6081596.stm

Hardly a surprise really, British lorry drivers have barely the merest hint of a responsible conscience, so I wouldn't expect foreign drivers to be any better, and I would expect more corners to be cut in countries where the penalties are even lower than our pathetic standards.

It's time for lorry drivers to be punished for their actions. If a driver is caught with an unroadworthy vehicle, or if he is driving excessive hours, his vehicle and all its cargo should be seized. The drivers who flout the law should be treated as culpable for death, and should be convicted of manslaughter not dangerous driving. penalties for lorry drivers who kill should be increased dramatically, with more maximum sentences of 14 years getting handed out. All foreign lorries should be examined at the ports for full roadworthiness, and foreign drivers should have to prove they can speak basic English before they are allowed to continue.

Any arguments?

Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont see why they should have to speak english, as long as they know the road signs, but apart from that, yeah!
  • Indrid ColdIndrid Cold Warming up? Posts: 16,688
    Strange, I thought road signs were international...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont see why they should have to speak english, as long as they know the road signs, but apart from that, yeah!

    I don't know. 'Fuck out of the way you moron' and 'I'll have a tea with six sugars and a bacon butty' seem to me to be indespensible for any lorry driver.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    I don't know. 'Fuck out of the way you moron' and 'I'll have a tea with six sugars and a bacon butty' seem to me to be indespensible for any lorry driver.
    :lol: You could probably safely just assume that thats what any lorry driver is saying, whatever language they appear to be speaking.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Relatedly

    I wonder why drivers (of any kind) found to have cause injury or death through dangerous driving are ever aloowed to drive again?

    There was a recent case where some twat killed a kid, he was sentenced to x years in prison and x+y years banned from driving, he was young so would still be driving for many years once his sentence was up.

    Why on earth should he ever be allowed to drive again? If rehabilitation is meant to encourage people not to commit the same crime again then an easy way to stop drivers commiting driving related crimes again is to stop them driving. Seems obvious to me.......
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    would you not say murder over attempted manslaughter?

    edited - sorry i meant attempted murder
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    VinylVicky wrote:
    would you not say murder over attempted manslaughter?

    With murder you have to show intent, as in the person meant to kill them, so unless the lorry runs you over on purpose then its not murder.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    With murder you have to show intent, as in the person meant to kill them, so unless the lorry runs you over on purpose then its not murder.
    I was thinking along the lines of unsafe vehicle and long hours - thoughs factors can knowingly lead to death
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    VinylVicky wrote:
    I was thinking along the lines of unsafe vehicle and long hours - thoughs factors can knowingly lead to death

    Yes, but you didnt intend to kill someone. That's why its manslaughter.

    Same as if you were in a pub fight, you hit someone and by bad chance they fall and crack their neck and die. Its not murder its manslaughter.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Should all drivers entering the country be expected to take and pass the theory test?

    Could anyone here still pass it?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    budda wrote:
    Yes, but you didnt intend to kill someone. That's why its manslaughter.

    Same as if you were in a pub fight, you hit someone and by bad chance they fall and crack their neck and die. Its not murder its manslaughter.
    but you may not know you was going to hit someone - with something that could actually be seen and predicted - like an unsafe vehicle or you knowing that you could fall asleep at the wheel and crash - wouldnt that make you know that it might happen?
    O is it the might - not definately know you will kill some one that makes the difference in manslaughter and attempted murder

    edited again as I keep missing attempted out
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I can still pass the theory test, and the new hazard perception test. I know, I took the practice test on one of those CDs my sister got for her test.

    I think making them sit a theory test is a bit impractical, but making sure their lorries and their bodies are roadworthy is not.

    It wouldn't be murder as they don't intend to kill- you have to intend to kill or commit GBH to be convicted of murder. It should be manslaughter because they are grossly negligent as to the consequences of their actions- they know their actions are dangerous to themselves and others, yet do them anyway.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    VinylVicky wrote:
    but you may not know you was going to hit someone - with something that could actually be seen and predicted - like an unsafe vehicle or you knowing that you could fall asleep at the wheel and crash - wouldnt that make you know that it might happen?
    O is it the might - not definately know you will kill some one that makes the difference in manslaughter and murder
    I think it's the wanting to that makes it murder. Like you're planning on doing it.
  • JsTJsT TheSite Graduate Posts: 18,265 Incredible Poster
    One of them destroyed Sandal & Agbrigg station bridge the other day.

    Moron.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    foreign drivers should have to prove they can speak basic English before they are allowed to continue.

    Any arguments?

    English drivers don't have to be able to speak Spanish/French/whatever to drive in those countries. You don't need to be able to speak a language to drive on its roads.

    Hence holders of certain foreign licences being allowed to drive for a year here.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PussyKatty wrote:
    English drivers don't have to be able to speak Spanish/French/whatever to drive in those countries. You don't need to be able to speak a language to drive on its roads.

    To be safe you need a basic understanding of the native language, and that does go for British drivers as well as European ones. You need to be able to read the road signs.

    But if the driver can't read the road signs because his English is so bad then he is not safe to be driving in this country.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    I think making them sit a theory test is a bit impractical, but making sure their lorries and their bodies are roadworthy is not.
    Making them take a theory test is impractical, but making them pass an MOT test isn't? Jesus Christ, you've got to trust that the testing of drivers, and roadworthiness of vehicles in other European countries are adequate. If they aren't then that's what needs to be addressed. Not ridiculous checks on everyone coming into the country. Hell they can't even check whether there's any illegal immigrants in the lorry, do you really trust them to check whether the vehicle is roadworthy?

    Perhaps a special sort of licence for anyone who is going to be regularly be driving large vehicles in other countries in the EU, which involves understanding basic differences in road signs, markings and rules? That shouldn't be too hard to sort out, it'd just be an extra bit on the usual driving test for a vehicle of that type.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    To be safe you need a basic understanding of the native language, and that does go for British drivers as well as European ones. You need to be able to read the road signs.

    But if the driver can't read the road signs because his English is so bad then he is not safe to be driving in this country.

    Aren't road signs generally symbols and pictures, therefore making language skills unnecessary?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Making them take a theory test is impractical, but making them pass an MOT test isn't?

    We already have roadside testing of vehicles, as the article explained, so there is no reason why that cannot be extended.
    Perhaps a special sort of licence for anyone who is going to be regularly be driving large vehicles in other countries in the EU, which involves understanding basic differences in road signs, markings and rules? That shouldn't be too hard to sort out, it'd just be an extra bit on the usual driving test for a vehicle of that type.

    A good idea, but it doesn't cover enough. If English (or for that matter French, Spanish, German or Norwegian) isn't good enough then you are not safe- how can you slow down for a flood if you don't know what the word is?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    PussyKatty wrote:
    Aren't road signs generally symbols and pictures, therefore making language skills unnecessary?

    Many aren't, though- many warning signs are just words, such as flood, or fog. Warning signs for corners say slow or reduce speed now, other say max speed, others warn for schools. Great if you don't know those words.

    It should be something for all of Europe, I'd extend the same thing for british drivers going out, but the fact still remains that a truck driver who can't speak enough English to understand the road signs is a menace.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    A good idea, but it doesn't cover enough. If English (or for that matter French, Spanish, German or Norwegian) isn't good enough then you are not safe- how can you slow down for a flood if you don't know what the word is?
    And why would that not be covered in the test?

    The whole point of the EU is freedom of trade and movement. All it needs in a bit of standardisation of testing, so that you don't have to go through time-consuming checks every time you go between countries.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Send them back where they came from, we don't like foreigners round ere.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IIRC there are new standards coming in for European Lorries which should help this problem.

    Having had to make a delightfully happy swerve onto the hard shoulder when a lorry started changing lanes on top of me I am very aware of the problems.

    One thing we should be doing as well is educating our own drivers of the risks of blind spots on lorries, I knew about them so when he started changing lane knew what I could do to move to where I could easily be seen (as well as hitting the horn hard). Likewise people should be made far more aware of the risks on hard shoulders - I see so many people sitting in their cars or standing on the hard shoulder. Do they have a deathwish?
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