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And before you say anything, I'm not saying physical violence by the police doesn't take place. I'm saying it's not official policy or common practice to beat the shit out of people who break the law. That belongs in the dark ages.
You asked what's the alternative and I gave you the one that civilised people would go with.
Yes. Address the underlying reasons for anti-social behaviour.
It was understandable in th epast but not a reason. It certainly isn't now.
The biggest threat to Catholic coppers wasn't racism, but the IRA. That excuse doesn't exist now.
Change can only happen if people make it happen. Segregation only falters when people integrate. You can bleat about how Catholics aren't welcome in the Police but until they are there in numbers nothing will ever change for the better.
ok.. so all that would result in is noone to deal with the anti social behaviour and quality of life decreasing for everyone in the area bar the scum bags.. i dont think thats an ideal solution anyway..
pretty much all the same reasons as anywhere else in the uk, nothin better to do etc, only its a lot worse because of the lack of policing .. its all well and good to suggest that but its not like you can click your fingers and the problems sorted, so something has to be done in the meantime?
The ideal solution only exists in fairy tales where the prince kisses the princess and they all live happily ever after.
It may not be the ideal solution, but the other alternative is to let the IRA (or the UVF) run roughshod over everyone they don't like. Somehow the cure for anti-social behaviour seems worse than the disease...
Punishment beatings will make it worse in the long run. You'll have a generation of kids inured to violence, who think that dishing out beatings is the answer to all their problems.
i cant speak for loyalist areas but you cant go beating whoever you like in a community, there would be and has been a big kick up over it.. of course theres exceptions but thats not even what im getting at, im talking specifically about beatings for severe, repeated anti social behaviour
@blagsta: my parents dont seem to think like that.. and like myself they know many people who have had a bit of sense beaten into them before they either killed themselves or someone else
i suppose theres not too much else to say .. i was just interested in the way it looked from the ouside.. it seems perfectly normal to me but im sure it seems a bit bizarre to anyone that doesnt live here
Oh, well, I was wrong then, if you're parents don't think like that :rolleyes:
And if you're one of the exceptions...
But even that's missing the point. If you want peace and normalisation of the community that means the police have to be accepted and vigilante gangs have to be removed, otherwise you just have the rule of the gun.
The answer, of course, is that you can't. If the provos don't like you, you get a warning to leave, and if you don't obey you lose your legs. Great justice, that is :rolleyes:
It's not a random lottery, people are picked for a reason. People who terrorise the neighbourhood, steal cars, rob houses, attack residents. They're asked to stop, if they don't they get done. The police obviously aren't going to do anything so who will? That's the logic behind the beatings,I don't agree with them but I can understand why they're carried out.
Those that dont that live in (for the most part dont deny it) nice middle class areas, of nicer non sink estates (like me)
Its easy to say how others should live when it dosnt effect you, Ive known a few real scumbag places where I wouldnt have gone at night or any time if i wasnt going with some of the locals.
And there are just so many little aggressive theiving scumbags around, who have no fear of anybody apart from those with a reputation for violence.
The road to change is not to suddenly abolish these organisations, but a good start would be some harsher penulties for lawbreakers, especially young ones, Ive known people who have a long string of convictions and dont seem to go to jail, and make a point of being arseholes to the police (althrough funnly enough Strathclyde police dont seem to have that many people being delibratly cheky to them, uuum wonder why)
Some people make it sound as if life under the IRA/Provos is a crime-free paradise of harmony and neighbourhood loviness. I've never been to NI but I get the feeling that's not quite the case. Is it?
These organisations have intelligence cells to investigate these matters. The community knows who the scumbags are and go to their local provo and he investiagates. If they go to the police, the police don't do nothing. I've had the provos at my door once, they give you a simple warning, if you continue to fuck about then you get what's coming.
No Aladin, they're not paradises but how will the scumbags be disciplined if the police won't do nothing about it?
First time I've heard walthamstow be called middle-class. That said I'm originally from Northern Ireland and its not the thieving little scumbags who caused the problems, but a bunch of fuckwits who not only dealt with the scumbags, but also anyone else who they didn't like (and that's a fuck of a long list).
DUP?
What?
The kids across the street throwing fireworks at each other and pissing in the bus shelter irritate the hell out of me, but I wouldn't want them to have their kneecaps blown into a million pieces.
So scrotey, if the provos think you TWOC'd that car, and you didn't, how do you appeal their decision to liberate you from your limbs?
Well tbh, they don't do you for an isolated incident. It's continual terrorising of the community. The community know who the scumbags are, the scumbags know who the scumbags are and the provos know who the scumbags are. Simple as.