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Are Muslims the new Jews?

MixBotMixBot Posts: 8,656 Automated Account
I'm asking because I have never seen so many stories, incidents, headlines and hatred regarding a group of people in my life time. The only comparable incident in recent history I can think of was the persecution and prejudice towards Jews in the years leading to WWII.

The endless headlines and generalisation are making me sick. The evil piece of fucking shit the S*n is carries the latest example of this dirty campaign, with the headline: "HOUNDED OUT- Hero Soldier's home wrecked by Muslims".

By 'Muslims'.

If you think there is nothing wrong with that generalisation, try replacing it with 'Jews' or 'blacks'.

Meanwhile at the equally odious Express, the front page is splattered with "VAN THE VEIL- Muslim women must reveal their faces say 97% in exclusive poll".


I mean, what the fuck? :mad:
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:

    If you think there is nothing wrong with that generalisation, try replacing it with 'Jews' or 'blacks'.

    Can't really use blacks as an example can you though, it's not a religion
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fair enough, though it still illustrates the fact that what the S*n printed was an unjust generalisation prompted by prejudice and bigotry.

    You simply can't imply what the headline is implying unless the entire group in question agrees with such actions or took part in them.

    At this rate, look out for 'Hooray for the BNP' headlines before long.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Fair enough, though it still illustrates the fact that what the S*n printed was an unjust generalisation prompted by prejudice and bigotry.

    You simply can't imply what the headline is implying unless the entire group in question agrees with such actions or took part in them.

    At this rate, look out for 'Hooray for the BNP' headlines before long.

    Well it being in the Sun I'm not sure whether its true or not. But if one assumes it is and some HCR were hounded out by some Moslems because they were soldiers, what else could the Sun call them. Anti-war protestors? Left-wing nutters?

    And perhaps if we don't want to name groups perhaps the HCR shouldn't have been named. In which case the story would have been 'Some people had their home vandalised by some other people who didn't want them to live there' - which wouldn't really have told us anything.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Well it being in the Sun I'm not sure whether its true or not. But if one assumes it is and some HCR were hounded out by some Moslems because they were soldiers, what else could the Sun call them. Anti-war protestors? Left-wing nutters?

    And perhaps if we don't want to name groups perhaps the HCR shouldn't have been named. In which case the story would have been 'Some people had their home vandalised by some other people who didn't want them to live there' - which wouldn't really have told us anything.
    Oh come on NQA. Surely you are able to appreciate the semantics here. By using the term 'Muslims' alone, instead of 'fantatics', 'extremists' or even 'Muslim fanatics' or 'Muslim extremists', the Scum is contributing to concept that Islam and Muslims are all violent extremists... which couldn't be further from the truth.

    You know perfectly well that if the headline had been "Hero Soldier's home wrecked by Jews" the outrage would have been of titanic proportions- and rightly so.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Oh come on NQA. Surely you are able to appreciate the semantics here. By using the term 'Muslims' alone, instead of 'fantatics', 'extremists' or even 'Muslim fanatics' or 'Muslim extremists', the Scum is contributing to concept that Islam and Muslims are all violent extremists... which couldn't be further from the truth.

    You know perfectly well that if the headline had been "Hero Soldier's home wrecked by Jews" the outrage would have been of titanic proportions- and rightly so.

    Well I'd have wanted some details if it was Jews, over why they wrecked the home? Whereas with Moslems its quite obvious that they were against the war. You'd probably have been screaming if the word 'extremist' had been used as well and suggesting that the Sun was saying all Moslems were extremists.

    Interestingly with this case they don't seem to have used the term 'extremist' or any other
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006460128,,00.html

    Perhaps the Sun is saying all soldiers are rapists?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Well I'd have wanted some details if it was Jews, over why they wrecked the home? Whereas with Moslems its quite obvious that they were against the war.
    It might be obvious to the likes of you and me, but thanks to the continued efforts of the gutter press an increasing number of people are happy to brush everyone with the same brush.
    You'd probably have been screaming if the word 'extremist' had been used as well and suggesting that the Sun was saying all Moslems were extremists.
    Er, no. I wouldn't at all. I have been saying for a long time now precisely the opposite, that we should all make clear when we're talking about a minority of extremists that we're not suggesting the entire group they come from is like them.
    Interestingly with this case they don't seem to have used the term 'extremist' or any other
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006460128,,00.html

    Perhaps the Sun is saying all soldiers are rapists?
    No. It's saying two soldiers from Prince Harry's regiment have been charged with rape.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What happened to Freedom of speech. In England it seems the Muslims are the only people to have that.

    Anything a Non-muslim says is apparently Racist
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What happened to Freedom of speech. In England it seems the Muslims are the only people to have that.

    Anything a Non-muslim says is apparently Racist
    What makes you say so? Any examples?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What happened to Freedom of speech. In England it seems the Muslims are the only people to have that.

    Anything a Non-muslim says is apparently Racist

    What the heck are you on about now?

    Are you going to give us some examples of how "non muslims" don't have freedom of speech? Are you going to give examples of how Muslim people are favoured by the judicial system?

    Aladdin, I don't see what you are upset about in this instance. A soldier's house was wrecked by Muslims- sure, they were thugs that happened to be Muslim, and it isn't indictaive of all Islamic people, but the actions of the thugs were determined by their socio-religious beliefs, which is Islamic.

    The story- like the story of the soldier in Selly Oak hospital who was attacked and abused by several Muslim patients- is true, and the headlines describe what happened. I fail to see what the issue is.

    I do appreciate that it can lead people to tar all Islamic people with the same brush, but perhaps the Islamic community should do something about these people, and be seen to do something about them, instead of whingeing about the media coverage they get. What many people seem to be upset about is that this story was reported, not that it was reported in the way that it was.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    It might be obvious to the likes of you and me, but thanks to the continued efforts of the gutter press an increasing number of people are happy to brush everyone with the same brush.

    Yep, better not let the working class oiks who read the Sun read things about Moslems. They're all closet BNP voters y'know.
    No. It's saying two soldiers from Prince Harry's regiment have been charged with rape

    And the article is saying some Moslems have trashed the house of some soldiers.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Perhaps it's just me but that kind of headline is a no-no IMO, and a deliberate act to show an entire group in bad light. A very clever use of the language by the Soaraway S*n.

    There is such thing as malicious, twisted reporting. Remember the Express's headline last year about a group of people who got arrested on some charge of terrorism or other? "THEY WERE ALL WERE ASYLUM SEEKERS"
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    Perhaps it's just me but that kind of headline is a no-no IMO, and a deliberate act to show an entire group in bad light.

    So people only think what the Sun tells them to?

    Some Muslims attack a soldier's house, and some other Muslims attack an injured soldier in hospital. How else are the media supposed to report these vile attacks? The ethnicity and the socio-religious beliefs of these people are relevant to the attack, after all- they attacked him because he was a soldier, and they did so because they saw him as an "enemy" of Islam.

    It's an attempt to show that a certain group of people attack another group of people for political reasons, and I don't see anything wrong at all with brining this to the public's attention.
    There is such thing as malicious, twisted reporting. Remember the Express's headline last year about a group of people who got arrested on some charge of terrorism or other? "THEY WERE ALL WERE ASYLUM SEEKERS"

    But they were all asylum seekers- it is accurate reporting.

    Of course they use facts to support their agenda, but it is for people to decide if they agree with that agenda or not. People buy the newspaper that agrees with their views, after all.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    NQA wrote:
    Yep, better not let the working class oiks who read the Sun read things about Moslems. They're all closet BNP voters y'know.
    Continuous campaigning and misleading headlines by two best selling papers in the country do have an effect on some people- not on all its readers of course, but on some of them.

    Look at the issue of immigration and asylum seekers. After the most abominable hate campaign by the Mail, Express and sometimes the Scum, some people in this country actually think we're drowning in illegal immigrants and the country is about to collapse.

    And the article is saying some Moslems have trashed the house of some soldiers.
    And I'm sure somewhere down other the article the S*n has the grace to acknowledge these were just some extremists. But there is a lot of venom in the headline itself, which at the end of the day leaves a lasting impression.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What happened to Freedom of speech. In England it seems the Muslims are the only people to have that.

    Anything a Non-muslim says is apparently Racist

    You're an idiot.

    Ooops, was that racist?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I'm asking because I have never seen so many stories, incidents, headlines and hatred regarding a group of people in my life time. The only comparable incident in recent history I can think of was the persecution and prejudice towards Jews in the years leading to WWII.

    The endless headlines and generalisation are making me sick. The evil piece of fucking shit the S*n is carries the latest example of this dirty campaign, with the headline: "HOUNDED OUT- Hero Soldier's home wrecked by Muslims".


    It's a bit like when all the newspapers carried nothing but stories of people that were bitten by dogs. Then new laws came into ban certain dogs, have them muzzled in public, etc.

    I'm petty sure the dog of the UK didn't have a meeting and have a sudden uprising, I'm pretty sure dogs have been biting people in equal numbers thrughout the ages, what changed was the media picked up on it and continously bombarded the public with stories and images.

    It's the same thing now with endless reports of muslim related stories. I'm sure the proportion of radicals is about the same as it ever was (maybe a tiny bit increased as some muslim may get hacked off seeing in justices like in Cuba where people have been held for years without charge) but overalls I'm sure the vast majority of Muslim go about their daily lives as ever except I'm sure some feel less sae then they once did from people being scared of them or treating them differently because of the way they look or dress.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah I think you have a good point there. Judging by the number of dog attacks reported in the press in the last 2 weeks you could be forgiven for thinking a brain-altering wave sent by aliens has transformed all dogs into killer beasts.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Or for thinking that because one dog attack was fatal the media is jumping on what is popular to report this week which is dog attacks... hardly needs that much commons sense to work out.

    As for this who thread, i think Kermit has yet again smashed one out of the stands and shown common sense and clear thinking. This is getting embarressing that every time i come onto a thread to say something all i have to say is "I agree with Kermit" seriously, let me get a word in first some times lol.

    And as for Jewish Persecution...Jews were persecuted out of Russia, Britain, all over Europe before descending en mass to Germany due to its tollerance to Jews prior to the rise of Nazism in the Post WW1 period. And what is going on now in the media with some papers having an agenda of a political nature is nothing even remotely on a par with Nazi controlled media of the 1930's Germany.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I was actually talking about English and European media rather than Germany's. There was definitely a long campaign of harrassement and prejudice towards Jews in sectors of the media in this country and elsewhere- accusations of carrying disease, amassing fortunes at the detriment of others, etc.

    Ken Livingstone hit the nail square on the head when he said of the Mail:

    Whilst it is true the Mail group no longer smears Jews as bringing crime and disease to the UK it is only because they have moved on. After a decade of pandering to racism against our citizens of Black and Irish origin they have moved on and now describe asylum seekers and Muslims in similar terms. For the Mail group the victims may change but the intolerance, hatred and fear pervade every issue of the papers..

    Even though the S*n wasn't around in the 1930s and 40s you can say pretty similar things about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Reminds me of that "Feminist moths of Steve Irwin" thread, don't wanna go down that road again.

    Who really gives a shit though? The sun et al readers are always going to read the sun et al, always going to be stupid illiterate oafs and there's nothing all the preaching in the world is gonna do about it. (Plus very few of these readers actually read the politics part, they usually flick to the back for the sport or page 3for a bit of tits). Sensible people read sensible papers so leave it be I say.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    You're an idiot.

    Ooops, was that racist?


    Err no, I can't say I feel offended.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Err no, I can't say I feel offended.

    Judging by your past posts' in this forum, I think you should read up on some history and politics. You come across as naive and stupid, no offence.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    IT's not the thrash papers that influence people. It's people that influence people.
    It's what happens in the local communities that matters...

    Wednesday night last week one of my rugby players almost got beaten up by a group of 8 Bangladeshi guys because of a plastic bottle kicking incident (one of the Bangladeshi guys kicked the bottle and it hit my mate, my mate called him a wanker, that was pretty much it). Fortunately the Met Police are pretty quick to respond these days so I managed to stop it without getting involved.
    The racial abuse my mate got was pretty strong (my mate is white). Why did these guys feel they could do what they wanted? Because they can always claim that he called them "****'s" or whatever.
    Some people don't realize that this happens all the time in London, and it's getting worse. And it isn't the Sun's fault. It's the communities and lack of education and direction.
    Quite a sad state of affairs.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :rolleyes:
    Yerascrote wrote:
    Judging by your past posts' in this forum, I think you should read up on some history and politics. You come across as naive and stupid, no offence.

    That's rich coming from you.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    What happened to Freedom of speech. In England it seems the Muslims are the only people to have that.

    Anything a Non-muslim says is apparently Racist
    Not really... I've been accused of being Islamaphobic before but it is only from a member of a political party (guess which one... Ohh guess, guess!), not from anybody else.

    I think it depends on what way you word a criticism, not on the criticism itself. For example, the National Union of Students has a black student comittee and white people are not allowed to join. They discuss black student issues and racism.

    Now you could turn around and say "that's not fair, they are allowed a committee and we are not. It's racism and favouring black people!" ect ect

    Firstly, the use of the word "they" (using my example) is segregating people in to a group, claiming racism or discrimination is calling the race card and makes it seem like you're looking for a fight and so on. It's better to ask questions and word things nicely.

    To say that only Muslims have freedom of speech is silly, we all have it to a certain degree. If a Muslim held up a sign saying "beat women and kill fags" by the side of the road they'd be arrested, just like if you held up a sign saying "wogs fuck off" (funnily enough some artists get paid for homophobia in their lyrics). Public Order Offense (I think?).
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :rolleyes:

    That's rich coming from you.

    What's rich? Certainly not me or a lot of people. Me no understand smart people! :crying:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    what i think os the most upsetting think here is that the sun headline seems to generalise one group of society when its plainly wrong. its stupid when you think about it but people get do get influenced by the press and that creates problems.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Err no, I can't say I feel offended.

    So your previous post was mistaken was it? In fact a non-Muslim can say something and it's not classed as racist?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yerascrote wrote:
    Judging by your past posts' in this forum, I think you should read up on some history and politics. You come across as naive and stupid, no offence.

    Careful, you're sounding like me! ;)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    :rolleyes:

    That's rich coming from you.

    You haven't been too bright yerself recently. You ill?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Right enough of the insulting of individuals, however much people disagree with each other this isn't an excuse to reduce debate to the level of playground insults. Most people at least would try to point out the problems in people's arguements if they disagree with them - however it's unfortunate to see the unholy three (dis, yera and blag) reducing things to their usual level of kiss chase.

    Please try to explain why you dislike something that's been posted - rather than just being cocks.
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