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Rise in anti semitism - Labour MP says "Jews have to accept responsibility"
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5319716.stm Here is the article.
Rise in anti semitic attacks, the government does nothing, there are key recommendations but I doubt any of these will get to the implementation stage. What really got to me was a Labour MP Mr Mc Shane's comment "British citizens who happen to be born Jews have to accept responsibility for the anger there is against Israel or America". What exactly does he mean by responsibility? That Jewish people should accept that they may be attacked because of policies they can't decide upon? I find his comment quite distrubing.
Imagine a MP saying similar thing about how Muslims must take responsibility for attacks on them because Islamic extremists are blowing innocents in the name of god?
Rise in anti semitic attacks, the government does nothing, there are key recommendations but I doubt any of these will get to the implementation stage. What really got to me was a Labour MP Mr Mc Shane's comment "British citizens who happen to be born Jews have to accept responsibility for the anger there is against Israel or America". What exactly does he mean by responsibility? That Jewish people should accept that they may be attacked because of policies they can't decide upon? I find his comment quite distrubing.
Imagine a MP saying similar thing about how Muslims must take responsibility for attacks on them because Islamic extremists are blowing innocents in the name of god?
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Comments
The big issue I always have with these surveys is what is defined as "anti-Semitism". I am vehemently against the existence of Israel, and so many times it is then argued that I am against Jewish people. If that has been used for the basis of this report, and people like Dr Sachs insist that it should be, then the entire report is deeply flawed.
The other big problem is that Judaism is a religious faith, not a race, and as such is voluntary. Why should Judaism receive more protection than any other religion?
Racism against Jewish people should be punished as severely as racism against any other minority, but we need to be careful to separate an attack on Judaism or semitic people from an attack on the abhorrent band of war criminals in Tel Aviv.
As for whether an MP would say the same thing about Islamic people, they probably would, yes. You've said as much, and so have I. If jewish people want attacks on themselves to decrease perhaps they want to stop justifying and approving every murder spree that Israel embarks upon.
at the same time i can see what the labour mp was meaning though
for the record - this countrys government does use 'oh people of their belief/race/nationality have commmited mass murder, thats enoguh reason to invade' a la afghanistan
i know what this guy is trying to say, but it'll take forever and im going to eat soon
i can understand why this country is now a target for terroists in general, simply because we are alienating certain cultures and thus give them more recruits - and i do blame this countries government, for causing these problems firstly, and for then ignoring a sizeable chunk of the population who didnt want to go to iraq for example, and for slowly withdrawing all our basic rights under the guise of security
kermit - just so you are aware, judaism is covered by the racial discrimination act, because over 70% are of a closely related geneology and ethnicity, i cant remember what it is exaclty, but thats why sikhs and jews are covered
How can you say Judaism is a faith, not a race (there is, actually, a strong ethnic undertone) then talk about "racism against jewish people?"
Zionism is not Judaism, so it's ridiculous to say jewish people as a group bear responsibility. Plenty of highly religious Jews are vehemently anti-Zionist.
There is a strong ethnic undertone, so you can be racist. But you have to be very careful to not single Judaism the faith out for special protection, because all faiths have strong ethnic undertones.
Zionism is not Judaism, but many Jewish people support the existence of Israel and they support the "defence" of its borders. Certainly many high people in the faith support the actions of the Israeli government.
It's not excusable to spray paint swastikas on gravestones because of the Israeli government, but people are angry and they will lash out at anyone they can find. And the fact does still remain that many opinion polls show that the majority of Jewish people do support what the IDF do.
What's your point?
Many people may well think that being anti-Israeli is the same as being anti-Semitic, its their opinion that they express. They're as wrong as the people who think the IDF are right.
I don't think a lot of opinions are right, but the fact people have them is a fact.
Of course people will get angry, but you can't justify "lashing out against anyone they can find" who belong to a certain group without a unified opinion. By all means, if someone's mouthing off support for Israel and supporting war crimes, I wouldn't have a problem in principle with them getting slapped for being a cunt, but the line has to be drawn when you're talking about designating entire groups with varying opinions as "responsible" for being targetted because of the prevailing majority.
If you don't draw that line then your logic supports the arguments Islamists use to justify terror attacks (who's actually behind the attacks is obviously another matter entirely) - which is that as a democracy, we're free to kick out war-mongers every few years. Something we never really do.
Of course its unjustifiable.
But I can see where people are coming from. I can see why many people, especially Islamic people, would want to wound the people who are wounding their people.
And whilst that group doesn't have a unified opinion, many people in that group are in favour of Israel and they are in favour of what Israel and the IDF do.
:yes:
It is a shame these attacks are rising - seemingly at the same time attacks of Islamic people are rising.
Seems the racist Daily Mail-esque media is getting its way.
So if a jewish person beat up a Muslim, because one of his family members died in a suicide bomb, you would understand that?
There is a lot of open racism against Jewish people. A friend of mine was beaten up in the park by a group of Pakistanis because they thought he was Jewish. The stupid thing is, he's a Muslim the same as them. Idiots.
At the same time as they don't vote in Israeli elections they have no responsibility for Israeli actions. That's a bit like say because you're a catholic you're responsible for the actions of the Vatican.
It means when they're lined up to go into camps they should go like good little boys and girls - after all we know Jews are bloodsuckers, who kill nice children and control the world banking system/bolshevik revolutionists (or both) :mad:
So you think most people who attack jews bother to find out if they support israel or not first?
thats why its evil discrimination.........
anyway i think the term 'accept responsibility' is what i meant people thought in the thing about girls who wear revealing clothing and getting slaughtered bearing some responsibility for increasing the likelihood they are attacked ie unacceptable risk taking
Apart from the dodgy belief that women who decide to wear a skimpy top on a night out and get a drunk are resposible for being sexually assaulted or raped how could the Jews take responsibility in that way. if you mean women could cover up or not drink the only analogy I can think off is that Jews should convert to another religion and cease being Jewish.
Yes, I would understand that.
I would disapprove just like I disapprove of the reverse, but I would understand why he did it.
I do believe that people who strongly identify themselves with the Catholic Church are responsible for how the Church behaves. Those who strongly identify themselves with Israel are responsible for the behaviour of the Israeli state. If you did not agree with what the state was doing, you would not identify yourself so closely with the government of that state.
For someone that high up in the Labour Party to say this is a scndal and you and I both know that if he had said the same thing about many other religions then he would be front page news and standing up in front of paxman failing to defend himself.
I guess it was a good week for him to say this though, what with Brown and Balir trying to hog the headlines like the egocentric wankstains I had them for.
My biggest concern with this is that attacks on Israel's war crimes would be classified as anti-semitic- the Israeli government certainly likes to try and claim this at every opportunity. I would also become worried if Judaism starts to receive more legal protection from "racism" than any other religion.
I do wonder how often comments like this go unreported because it is more "acceptable" at the moment to criticise jews because of what Israel does.
It's not that simple. To many Jews it seems as if Israel is under constant attack, it is difficult to dispute the fact that Israel is held to a much higher standard than most other countries. Chinese human rights abuses or Zimbabwean human rights abuses are usually much more severe yet rarely prompt protests or boycotts; partly perhaps because journalists in China and Zimbabwe have nothing like the freedom that journalists have in the State of Israel.
But what I think you're forgetting is that many Jewish people identify with Israel because they have links to it; family or friends perhaps. Or they've been there on holiday even.
And any implication that supporting the right of Israel to exist and its right to defend itself somehow justifies violence and discrimination is unacceptable and wrong.
China is a funny one because its just about impossible to boycott the products of China. Just about any product you buy has something made in China, whether you know it or not, it isn't as easy as boycotting Jaffas, for instance.
I think most people are well aware of what goes on in countries like China and Zimbabwe and North Korea. The difference between their war crimes and the war crimes of Israel is that the United States don't declare Israel "evil", they declare all the people that Israel attacks as "evil".
I feel that I should clarify myself. I don't think that any attack on a Jewish person is justifiable or correct, but I think it is fair to say that the people who identify themselves with war criminals should expect a backlash against them.
Bollocks, around half of the world's Catholic population are non-white.
that's for sure, well said.
I guess making things up is preferable to accepting the reality of China being among the best in the world at political persecution and censorship.
Nonsense. Israel gets away with a lot more than other countries due to its support from the US. Look at what they're doing in Gaza - its virtually genocide. Nary a peep about it from most people.