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Relax, my sisters have been through it, I know it's not as simple as I made out. I was just trying for some thought provoking thingy....whatever.
Oh definitely.
In an ideal world a woman would only get pregnant when both people wanted it and were in a position to look after it. But the world isn't ideal, and sometimes termination is the better choice, for woman and baby alike.
Even adoption isn't a way of removing all responsibility from a child, because these days adopted kids have a habit of turning up on your doorstep 15 years later wondering why mummy didn't want them.
Possibly because you don't seem to read what people actually write, and you keep raising the "so you'd be happy to tell them their father was a rapist" comment. It's isn't about that.
You argued that there were three exclusion to your anti-abortion stance. Rape, woman's health, child's health. What has been pointed out to you is that in each ofthose cases the mother is making a choice driven by the starting point of not wanting the baby, for the exclusions you mention.
Fundamentally therefore the abortion is based on "not wanting" the baby.
The question which has been asked of you, as a result, is how "not wanting" because of rape is morally any different from "not wanting" for any other reason - whether that is choice or cicumstance.
If you are funamentally opposed to choice, then it matters not what the woman's justification is and therefore your exclusions become null and void.
If you have exclusions then you are accepting that a woman should have choice.
Rather than criticise you, people here are trying to understand the basis of your stance and trying to make you see that there is no logic to it.
Does that help?
Wrong question, really, IMHO.
The question is do I think it's right that a woman should have the choice to abort because she didn't use contraception. And the answer to that is yes.
On a moral point, I personally don't think that is correct but it's not my place to make such a moral judgment on how other people behave.
I can see, even with my av., a moment when I would consider abortion. Like you there are circumstance where I personally would understand why Mrs MoK would want to do it, but morally I would find it difficult to understand or accept if her reasoning was becasue of an "accident". Having said that, it is ultimately her choice and not mine.
When it comes to abortion rights, I could not support a law which imposed my moral stance on other people and placed them in a position where they had no choices available.
I guess that makes me one of the "anti-abortionists" who are pro-choice, mentioned earlier.
Not in my experience.
It's never a precise 50/50 split, even when Dad is around and a big part of the care of the child. It's usually one parent who take smore of the "demand" than the other - partly due to the relationship with the child. It could be that only one can calm the child, that only one can change a dirty nappy without puking, that only one can feed the child etc.
That said, that says more about my pedantry than your comment though.
Mrs MoK is 14 weeks. Since we found out, she has not been able to lift anything heavy (and that includes simple tasks like the hoover/putting washing out etc - NB she is housewife, it's not that I'm chauvanist ), recently she has started to find that her bladder need emptying more frequently, that she needs to do more pelvic floor exercises (otherwise sneezing brings a wholly different discharge of bodily fluids :yuck: ) etc. That's a three months in.
Obviously, if she reads this, she'll also find that her temper is harder to control and I won't be around much anymore
To suggest that preganancy is only tough towards the end, is frankly false.
So shut up
Is this position limited to abortions ?
Therefore confirming my suspicions.
Never a thread wasted and all that.
I'm a bit of both i reckon
Most of the time people hold an opinion and think they're correct, and therefore want other people to think the same way
You'd be surprised, to this day, I've had 4 lifers turn to the dark side
Not true.I don`t care what other people THINK. I do care when other people want to take ACTION to,in their opinion, correct me(no pun intended)
Also, why would you HAVE to tell the kid its dad is a rapist? OK so it might get suspicious when you avoid the issue when it's brought up, but why not just tell it daddy was a one-night stand?
Never actually answered this question. In general, I am aginst abortion.
and please spell my name right
The world health organisation estimates are that there are over 40 million abortions carried out every single year, so with those kind of numbers it should be discussed.
Since medical technology is always improving the age at which an unborn baby can be born and survive is always moving
Certainly not an easy debate and even more complex when you take into account the father's right, for instance if a woman wants an abortion and the father doesn't..
I'll say it again: If your mindset is like "I know I'm right and I'll never change my mind on this, now let's go convince others to agree with me" then, in my honest opinion, you should stay out of discussions.
However i am opposed to the women who have abortions as their method of birth control, having several, like 4 or 5 when they could easily use a contraceptive.
But i do stand by it being the womans choice...though i would hope in the case of a married couple or relationship that is heading towards marriage, she would talk the husband about it and take in his concerns for the child too.
As far as I'm aware it is technically impossible to use abortion as a form of contraception, isn't it? I agree that men and women aught to be equipped with the knowledge and necessarys to prevent as any unwanted pregnancies as possible.
If I had the child of a rapist, I might tell the child when it was old enough to understand if I thought knowing the truth would not be overly damaging. I doubt I would enjoy the conversation.
Statistically, it is safer to abort than to go through labour. I wonder if those who agree with abortions for a woman's safety include the risk of dying in labour?
This thread has brought interesting points to discussion, which have helped me I think. So I would like to carry it on for my sake (and for others' if there are others out there like me of course).
On this point particularly Sophia, I find I make exceptions for abortions resulting from rape not because of the reason you meant here -at all-, but more from a position of being it easier to empathise with an action driven from an act which was not done willingly. I'm perfectly aware this doesn't change things for the baby, but nevertheless I find it more difficult to morally condemn that action. If you had no freedom in the previous choice, then I find easier to open the choice later on in the chain of consequences, even though it does bring a harm (in my view) to the unborn baby. I'm not sure this argument holds philosophically, but from my gut it does, does that count?
I know you said you signed out of this debate Sophia but I'm sure your over-opinionated self won't resist the urge to answer