why is religion treated in the same way as race

Former Member · March 2006

In that case, there must be a line in there somewhere making an exception for Palestinians...

Former Member · March 2006

Disillusioned wrote:

I’m not particularly knowledgeable on the Torah and Judaism but I’m pretty sure I know more than you and I know enough to realise that you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about...

The Torah justifies war in the Book of Joshua but it also offers a vision of peace based on not just absence of war but settled and lasting peace and security:

'And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.' Isaiah 2:4

Also for Jews the Talmud is considered and a further source of authority in Jewish law and ethics. Most Jews also don't take the Torah literally you know. Even most religious Jews would interpret it in context.

Consider the death penalty, while the Torah would suggest Judaism supports the death penalty the Oral Law would make it difficult, nearly impossible to execute someone for murder.

They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys (Jos.6:21)... as God had ordered them!, so the false gods will not be adored among them, because the gentile women will induce the Israelites to adore false gods (Deut.7:2-5, 20:16-18, Num.25:1-5, 31:14-17, Ex.23:33)

Looks like a Biblical incitement to genocide against non-Jews to me.

kthxbye

Former Member · March 2006

All religions advocate barbarity and violence shocker!

Former Member · March 2006

Cain wrote:

Looks like a Biblical incitement to genocide against non-Jews to me.

You really are a bit simple aren’t you? There isn’t really any sect in Judaism that takes the Torah as the sole authority and interpreting it in its entirety literally. Judaism isn’t like evangelical Christianity or Islam. The Torah for religious Jews is considered in the context of the early rabbinical commentary – the Talmud and the Oral Law – and most Jews also believe the Torah should be reinterpreted in a modern context – Reform Judaism, the biggest movement essentially sees the Torah as an evolving document – it’s not a ‘dead’ text, it’s open to re-evaluation and reinterpretation.

Really – speak to somebody qualified on this, I’m sure you can find a Rabbi who will happily discuss this with you. I don’t know what you’re implying but if you’re suggesting that Judaism somehow advocates genocide against non-Jews you couldn’t be further off the mark.

Former Member · March 2006

Voodoo Ray wrote:

In that case, there must be a line in there somewhere making an exception for Palestinians...

Most Israelis are Jews, most Americans are Christians and most Jordanians are Muslim. Does that mean all Israelis, Americans, Jordanians and their governments will adhere strictly to their religious teachings? Er no. Just because somebody is a Jew or a Muslim it doesn’t mean that they’re a good Jew or a good Muslim and will automatically follow their religion...

The Israeli government like most Western governments doesn’t claim to be adhering strictly to any particular religion and doesn’t uphold itself to some kind of religious standard. For the most part Israel’s government is secular in nature. Indeed nearly half of Israel’s population is secular too I believe.

Anyway despite its wrongdoings Israel doesn’t routinely and deliberately execute innocent Palestinians so I'm not sure what your point is.

Former Member · March 2006

Dis!

How about some evidence for your assertions of "jewish", "israel", "christian" and so on?

You know, before we say it's ok for certain groups to randomly kill others lets check they exist, eh? Otherwise your just a nutter, neh?

In the absence of which - go see a doctor, claiming things you can't sense are real is the preserve of lunatics. :wave:

Teh_Gerbil · March 2006

klintock wrote:

Dis!

How about some evidence for your assertions of "jewish", "israel", "christian" and so on?

You know, before we say it's ok for certain groups to randomly kill others lets check they exist, eh? Otherwise your just a nutter, neh?

In the absence of which - go see a doctor, claiming things you can't sense are real is the preserve of lunatics. :wave:

Exactally.

Religion and race are seperate as ever. I dont get people calling religions races. Its odd.

Former Member · March 2006

Disillusioned wrote:

The Israeli government like most Western governments doesn’t claim to be adhering strictly to any particular religion and doesn’t uphold itself to some kind of religious standard. For the most part Israel’s government is secular in nature. Indeed nearly half of Israel’s population is secular too I believe.

Furthermore, you see the ultra-orthodox lunatic Jews who do believe in the Torah as God's unchangeable word to be rallying alongside groups of people advocating the demolotion of the state of Israel, being that the state of Israel wasn't founded on religious terms.

And Klintock, perhaps you're the one who should seek help?
I mean, fair enough, you choose to view the world in your own way. But when almost everybody else views it in one way, then perhaps you're the one with the problem?
Or sorry, do problems not exist in your world? Does your world exist? Do you exist?

Former Member · March 2006

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

Maybe...

What China are doig to Tibet is awful... Tibetans can be incarcerated and tortured simply for owning a picture of the 'speratist' Dalai Lama. Their country is being raped for oil, their culture oppressed, their financial independence mainly belongs to China too... A lot of Tibetans have fleed to India to escape persecution. It is so sad.

You sound like a neo-con with all those big words "incarcenated" "oprressed" blah blah blah ever lived in Northern Ireland?

Former Member · March 2006

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

Because before it was said about 'Buddhist extremists' and that was used as an example.

What's that got to do with ethnicity though?

Former Member · March 2006

Disillusioned wrote:

You really are a bit simple aren’t you? There isn’t really any sect in Judaism that takes the Torah as the sole authority and interpreting it in its entirety literally. Judaism isn’t like evangelical Christianity or Islam. The Torah for religious Jews is considered in the context of the early rabbinical commentary – the Talmud and the Oral Law – and most Jews also believe the Torah should be reinterpreted in a modern context – Reform Judaism, the biggest movement essentially sees the Torah as an evolving document – it’s not a ‘dead’ text, it’s open to re-evaluation and reinterpretation.

Really – speak to somebody qualified on this, I’m sure you can find a Rabbi who will happily discuss this with you. I don’t know what you’re implying but if you’re suggesting that Judaism somehow advocates genocide against non-Jews you couldn’t be further off the mark.

Bit quick to the ad hominem, aren't we? Twice in two posts. Bye bye, if you cant argue with resort to name calling, you're on ignore.

Former Member · March 2006

Disillusioned wrote:

Really – speak to somebody qualified on this, I’m sure you can find a Rabbi who will happily discuss this with you.

Klintock,

Didn`t you make yourself the Site`s resident Rabbi ? Your services may be needed

Former Member · March 2006

Didn`t you make yourself the Site`s resident Rabbi ? Your services may be needed

I am indeed. I think I'll just add "Pope", "Ayatollah" and "King" to my list of services and see how I get on.

I mean, fair enough, you choose to view the world in your own way. But when almost everybody else views it in one way, then perhaps you're the one with the problem?

The truth or falsehood of my position (which if it was false you would directly address of course) does not depend upon the number of people holding alternate viewpoints. Everyone used to believe the world was flat.

It's quite the insight into your own processes of thought. No doubt at some point in the past a bunch of people told you a quite fantastic tale and you went along with them suspecting it was false but frightened that your own senses were leading you awry.

Your own family lied to you.

Now you carry on the fine tradition and lie to yourself and others.

The main problem in the world as far as I can tell is that people's ability to think has been corrupted by myths and legends. Like your own.

Former Member · March 2006

turlough wrote:

You sound like a neo-con with all those big words "incarcenated" "oprressed" blah blah blah ever lived in Northern Ireland?

Nope, but I've read books on Tibet, which is why I used that example.

What about Northern Ireland?

Former Member · March 2006

turlough wrote:

What's that got to do with ethnicity though?

Somebody before mentioned it, if you'd read the thread then you'd know that. I said that I've never seen evidence of 'Buddhist extremists', the thread is about religion, however I don't believe what is happening in that particular country was about religion, but ethnicity and culture.

Former Member · March 2006

-[MoonRat]- wrote:

Somebody before mentioned it, if you'd read the thread then you'd know that. I said that I've never seen evidence of 'Buddhist extremists', the thread is about religion, however I don't believe what is happening in that particular country was about religion, but ethnicity and culture.

Well just type in 'Buddhist extremists' in a seach engine

http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557

Former Member · March 2006

Dont Buddhist extremists set them selves on fire when they protest but not harm anyone else? And only in Tibet?

Also, the extreme ones engage in a solitudinal state where they cut themselves off from all things so they dont end up hurting any life at all.

Former Member · March 2006

bigwobblybob wrote:

Well just type in 'Buddhist extremists' in a seach engine

http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557

Wow... I've never heard of violence from Buddhists before, how do the people know that the individuals attacking the churches are Buddhist? In the first example it says talks about "six unknown men" so their is no proof... I jus don't understand how it works at all... Buddhism and extremism don't seem to fit.

Edited to add: I could not find any reputable sources to back up what was said about Buddhist extremists, having looked through both Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and other reliable NGO's. Most of the anti-Buddhist stuff is on Evangelist websites.

why is religion treated in the same way as race

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