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Academic defends himself against 'racist' claims
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
An academic at Leeds University who teaches Russian has caused outrage by suggesting that black people have a lower average IQ than white people. He bases this on research going back 100 years. As a result, students at the university have started petitioning that he be sacked. So, what did he say?
"I have read an enormous amount of literature on this subject and I find it extremely convincing. But we have to accept, I believe, that there are these differences. [between black and white people] The way to deal with this is not to treat people as groups, but to treat them as individuals."
I looked at the University of Leeds website, but they seem rather keen to gloss over all this by not mentioning it. Why am I not surprised? So, this link from the BBC will have to suffice.
Unfortunately for the academic, there are one or two holes in his theory. Attitudes towards race have changed over the last 100 years. I have also read that many modern scientists who have looked at the Bell Curve Theory that he evokes believe it is nothing more than offensive nonsense. Should he be allowed to freely circulate views which are so controversial? Or is it the case he has gone too far?
---EDITED following complaints---
"I have read an enormous amount of literature on this subject and I find it extremely convincing. But we have to accept, I believe, that there are these differences. [between black and white people] The way to deal with this is not to treat people as groups, but to treat them as individuals."
I looked at the University of Leeds website, but they seem rather keen to gloss over all this by not mentioning it. Why am I not surprised? So, this link from the BBC will have to suffice.
Unfortunately for the academic, there are one or two holes in his theory. Attitudes towards race have changed over the last 100 years. I have also read that many modern scientists who have looked at the Bell Curve Theory that he evokes believe it is nothing more than offensive nonsense. Should he be allowed to freely circulate views which are so controversial? Or is it the case he has gone too far?
---EDITED following complaints---
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
0
Comments
and he would have forgot to mention it's cultural bias either thus showing why over past 100 years they are levelling out
he dont need the sack as such he just needs to be put in his place to show the sham he is
What's wrong with him pointing this out?
Well he never taught me as far as I know, does it give is name???
Leeds Uni are hypocritical sods anyway.
Well I reckon on a biological level there could be differences between black people and white people, but not in intelligence I'd say, more like the physical e.g black people seem to be more gifted at running, jumping and atheletics while white people seem to swim better, at least on a professsional athlete level anyway.
No, some black people (from specific areas and specific genes) are better at running, and some white people seem to be better at swimming. It has nothing to do with skin colour and everything to do with the enviroment in which they are born and bred.
on a off note: student unions tend to go a bit overboard on their erm political correctness most of the time, for example my SU has a women's officer and a ethnic minority officer, when to my knowledge to claims of discrimination have occured FOR ages, and that to my knowledge there is no ethnic minorities in my university but quite an even mix due to it's foreign student intake thus these 2 positions are a waste of time and money, and should be replaced by a equal rights officer to cover all discrimination - last time that was suggested they got accused of being sexist and racist which cracked me up
:banghead:
No you misunderstand me, I didn't mean that your skin colour dictates what physical skills you have.... I meant that back on the evolutionary scale and through adaptions to enviroment, the born and breeding mentioned, that ic an give you that ability.
For example, people decending form the plains of Africa, descended form hunteres and in a an enviroment full of predators where runing and jumping ect where necassary.
White people orginate form Northern areas, less predators,less need for the phsyical skill of running and jumping, but more water, so they became natural swimmers.
I beleive traces of this still remain in people today.
Its like, how black people orginate from hotter , more sun exposed areas and so thats what gave them their pigmentation, its was an evolutuionary develoipment of survival.
As we moved north and away form the sun exposed areas to more colder climbs, we lost the pigmentation.
Thats what I meant.
you need to be careful going around calling people things like that, no matter what the evidence seems to be like, could get thesite into an awful lot of trouble
While his comments don't seem appropriate - and I don't think they have both feet planted firmly in fact - I wouldn't call him a racist nut.
All said, I have to doubt his overall intelligence if he thought he could (allegedly) make that comment without being immediately engulfed in flames of outrage. :rolleyes:
In evolutionary terms we are all only about two seconds ahead of the running jumping catching animals lifestyle.
and before anyone asks for a link, this is just my own theory so don't get airiated.
I think he's comparing people calling him a racist to the suppressors of free speech under the Soviet Union.
He's just another arrogant academic making a fool of himself by straying too far outside his specialty.
physical differences may exist, genetic differences between humans are so tiny, you might be able to have a guess as to where someone comes from down to their genetic code, however, in terms of skin colour theres no such difference and thus from someones genetic code you cant determine their 'race'
physical traits comes from environment as well, if someone grows up watching tv and never leaving the couch, they'll be different to someone who grows up walking everywhere all the time
this guy should be discredited properly as he made so many flaws in what he said, and not made a martyr
The guy says that bell curves show that one group is more intelligent on average than another group, but that it means nothing when you are faced with an individual member of that race.
He even says that the individual should be focussed on, not the data from the bell curve because any individual from either group can be greatly intelligent or a screaming fuckwit.
I am totally at a loss as to what exactly he has done wrong. All he has stated are facts.
I think he said a little more than that, didnt he claim that the average IQ of black people was 75 ?
Everybody who advocates this type of view, starts off sounding nice and scientific, but then shows them self up with some obviously untrue and or prejudiced statment
IS the average IQ of a black person 75?
exactly, its an arbituary measure and anyone who judges a group of people on such a crappy test is an idiot, and no im not biased, i apparantly have an IQ of near 140 and i still think they're a load of bollocks
Black person / white person same education + same environment = same iq (ceterus paribus). Physical differences between people from different areas? Sure. But they dont correlate to skin colour, thats jsut another adaptation. Everyons different afterall, chances are if you had a mobile phone speed texting competition, teenagers in the UK would be better than teenagers in mongolia because of the environment.
Would this be the Soviet Union that recently has (under the name of Russia) seen a resurgence in racism, Neo-Nazi organizations, skinheads and low level targeting of ethnic groups?
They were there alll through Soviet Times too. 'cept many worked in the KGB, back then.
And of course, the fact that Russia is apparently one of the most racist countries on earth, and has been for a few hundered years.
Scary. That is probably why he claims this.
Seconded
He states some opinions here :
http://su.nottingham.ac.uk/~impact/leeds-lecturer-attacked-for-racist-remarks
Frank Ellis, a lecturer in Russian and Slavonic Studies, told the Leeds Student that he was an "unrepentant Powellite" who felt that the British National Party was "too socialist" for his liking. Ellis said that he supported the Bell Curve theory that, he claims, demonstrates "beyond reasonable doubt" that black people have a lower average intelligence than white people. Ellis singled out Africans for particular criticism, citing research that claimed their average IQ score was 70. In the West, Ellis noted, this would be regarded as on the threshold of mental retardation.
He's not a serious un biased scientist who's come to the conclusion that there is a racial difference in intelegence, he is a biased racist.
Man's a racist, based on some data from Bell curve statisitics. No one is saying those statisitics are flawed, are they?
No, just saying the method itself isn't so hot.
What's wrong with that?
The university says it's not an issue with his marking or anything, so why can't he dislike people because of the coplour of their skin and a few dodgy statistical tests?
I don't get the fuss.
"...were one to take the 'white' and the 'male' out of science and technology, one would have no science, just witchcraft, third world squalor, misery and mega-incompetence." - Frank Ellis
Psychologists and other people who are actually pretty well qualified to comment on things like the Bell Curve theory think he's talking complete shite, he's clearly just trying to back up his racist beliefs with some science and for some reason thinks being a Russian teacher makes him qualified to do so.
I think he's got the right to free speech, like everyone else, but I don't think he should be employed to teach people he believes are inferior.