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UK gender pay gap worst in Europe

A landmark investigation into why women lag badly behind men in pay has called for a change of culture in schools and workplaces.
The Women and Work Commission concluded that the gender pay gap is worse in Britain than anywhere in Europe.

It found that women in full-time work were earning 17% less than men.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4753360.stm

Nice to see some things never change... :rolleyes:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Interestingly I saw some other research the day before this came out suggesting that in some industries (accounting for one) its actually the opposite now. All things being equal women are considerably more likely to get a job interview there.

    The gap will never totally close, but flexible working should and could be used a LOT more.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Reports/investiagtions like this are always welcome, the more attention the issue gets the better. I'm glad to see it's getting high-level attention and support, too, though I won't hold my breath for any startling changes in the near future.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    why not?

    Because women will always have kids, and mothers who choose to stay home or only want to work part time will always make the stats uneven.

    I'm not saying there shouldnt be equality of opportunity but purely focusing on earnings isnt always the best measure. Everyone should be able to work flexibly (when the job allows it) not just women. We should be looking at every workers conditions and not just womens in comparison to mens.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    A friend of mine who is just 19 is now a fully qualified accountant and her dream is not to progress or be hugely successful or attempt to become a partner in her company, she just wants to work until she can buy a house, settle-down, get married and have kids.

    I know, thats not really to do with stats i just thought it was interesting follow on from Bongbudda.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'd be interested in how many British women work compared to in Europe. My understanding is that the UK has a higher return to work rates after birth than virtually any country in Europe, and if that was factored in whilst there would still be a gap between men and women the UK would actually do a lot better than many European countries
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why can't men stat at home with the kids?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Put it this way after my wife gave birth you'd have had to drag her back to work because she wanted to stay at home with them (and she's only just returned part-time). I like, most men, am quite happy to work when my children are little. if we wanted to do it the other way round we could have done, but most (not all) women would prefer to stay at home and look after the children at least when they are small.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Why can't men stat at home with the kids?


    women get more legal rights to see children thus it encourages men to stay at work and women to stay at home once a child is born


    give men and women equal access to leave, or just do it so theres a total of 9month leave, so say the couple can choose to have the women at home first 6months and the man the following 3months, or whatever they want

    you would gradually see an equalisation i'd reckon


    as one business leader put it, 'no manager in their right mind would employ a woman of child bearing age unless she was entirely work focused'
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    [
    QUOTE=bongbudda]Interestingly I saw some other research the day before this came out suggesting that in some industries (accounting for one) its actually the opposite now. All things being equal women are considerably more likely to get a job interview there.

    The gap will never totally close, but flexible working should and could be used a LOT more.
    [/QUOTE]

    maybe women have a better chance of getting a job interview because they are paid less?!
    it is pretty absurd specially in this day and age where women are considered to be as equal as men in society!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    these reports only have credibility if they are comparing the same jobs in the same industries... comparing a female secretary to wayne rooney is a nice way to get stats to moan about, but to be a fair test you can't really do it on the economy as a whole.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i don't see why not...if across the entire population, women working full time are systematically earning significantly less than men, that to me suggests that something is not quite right; that despite all our talk of equal opportunities and gender-neutral legislation, gender inequalities and injustice are built into our social, political and economic system.


    men and women on average work in different jobs

    more women work in part time jobs on average i believe for example
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Even if you have total equality (never going to happen) then women would STILL earn less than men, purely and simply because men (on average) don't take long breaks from work, making them more valuable in the workplace.

    Plus, women don't want to be equal. They really know their place is as a servant, having littel intelligunce and a poor sense of humour too. :p
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    That is rather unreasonable.

    What you are saying is basically that women dominated professions should be paid more simply because of that fact, so as to make everything 'fair'.

    That is hardly fair on men or the women who have worked to do well in more male dominated professions.

    Should nurses be paid as much as surgeons?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    littel intelligunce

    :chin:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    klintock wrote:
    Even if you have total equality (never going to happen) then women would STILL earn less than men, purely and simply because men (on average) don't take long breaks from work, making them more valuable in the workplace.

    Plus, women don't want to be equal. They really know their place is as a servant, having littel intelligunce and a poor sense of humour too. :p

    Only when Religion gets into it. I think, however, we can safley say from experience, Women make bad leaders of countries. :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    so are you saying that people in lower paid jobs don't work hard?



    i'm undecided, but i'm certainly not against the idea on principle. do you think nurses definitely shouldn't be paid the same as surgeons? why?

    No I am not saying they don't work hard but that many people have to work harder to make it at the top. I don't see it as controversial that many people who have done well have done so because they have worked hard.

    No I don't think Surgeons should be paid the same as nurses. Incentives are required in order to garner the commitment and extra training required to become a surgeon and to attratc the best people. This is obvious.........
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    No I don't think Surgeons should be paid the same as nurses. Incentives are required in order to garner the commitment and extra training required to become a surgeon and to attratc the best people. This is obvious.........
    Plus the fact that where there are fewer people with a certain type or level of expertise, you have to pay them more. There are more nurses, therefore, they get paid less. There are less surgeons, therefore you have to pay them more. That's obvious.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Katralla -
    and a poor sense of humour too. :p

    ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    bongbudda wrote:
    Because women will always have kids, and mothers who choose to stay home or only want to work part time will always make the stats uneven.

    Testosterone accounts for a natural disparity as well as a driving force towards power. Can't be avoided. Why do people give a fuck anyway, the measure of 'equality' should be in terms of human happiness and nothing else.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I love it when Aladdin makes threads about these sorts of stories...

    This story is nonsense. It's merely more rubbish designed to promote this government's agenda of forcing every woman to go out to work. We do need more flexible time, from both men and women. The pay gap will never disappear, as Tessa Jowell acknowledged recently, it's still too high, but this report is the usual Labour bunkum. If women want to work, let them. If they want to stay home and look after the kids, let them.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    stargalaxy wrote:
    I love it when Aladdin makes threads about these sorts of stories...

    This story is nonsense. It's merely more rubbish designed to promote this government's agenda of forcing every woman to go out to work. We do need more flexible time, from both men and women. The pay gap will never disappear, as Tessa Jowell acknowledged recently, it's still too high, but this report is the usual Labour bunkum. If women want to work, let them. If they want to stay home and look after the kids, let them.

    Ssshhh with the Dialy Mail already! :p Honestly, you're like a concentration camp guard! *dont hurt me*

    Erm, this story is NOT nonsense - why SHOULD women be paid less than men? Any GOOD reason? What, don't they work as hard, or are their feble female minds only able to cope with "womens jobs" Washing Machines and Ironing?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    Ssshhh with the Dialy Mail already! :p Honestly, you're like a concentration camp guard! *dont hurt me*
    That was a crass, unnecessary and deeply offensive comment, Gerbil.
    Erm, this story is NOT nonsense - why SHOULD women be paid less than men? Any GOOD reason? What, don't they work as hard, or are their feble female minds only able to cope with "womens jobs" Washing Machines and Ironing?
    Please read what I say. The report is nonsense, the story has only some truth. Yes, there's a difference in pay. Are women paid less? This claim is almost accepted entirely as unquestioned fact. What about the fact that for every man who works part-time, there are three women working part-time? Don't twist what I write, Gerbil.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    stargalaxy wrote:
    That was a crass, unnecessary and deeply offensive comment, Gerbil.
    Sorry, you really sounded like that rag.
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Please read what I say. The report is nonsense, the story has only some truth. Yes, there's a difference in pay. Are women paid less? This claim is almost accepted entirely as unquestioned fact. What about the fact that for every man who works part-time, there are three women working part-time? Don't twist what I write, Gerbil.
    So the women that work full-time, should suffer due to those who work part-time? Alot of women HAVE to work part-time, otherwise no-one is at home to care for, often as not, the Children. And when no-one raises them, they end up with little guidance or moral upbringing, often as not. Perhaps a state-creche? It is still seen as a Fathers role to go out and have the main job.

    So, the women who work full-time, why are they paid less than full-time men?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    So the women that work full-time, should suffer due to those who work part-time? Alot of women HAVE to work part-time, otherwise no-one is at home to care for, often as not, the Children. And when no-one raises them, they end up with little guidance or moral upbringing, often as not. Perhaps a state-creche? It is still seen as a Fathers role to go out and have the main job.
    Now we're getting somewhere. I don't like the idea of kids being brought up by the state either. The interests of parents and the interests of New Labour are completely different and incompatible with one another. This is extremely difficult.

    I believe women should be allowed to work or stay at home, and have a genuine choice about it. (I hope I don't sound like David Cameron here) The Government has a role in this, but it is not the one that is being pursued now.
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    Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Posts: 13,332 Born on Earth, Raised by The Mix
    stargalaxy wrote:
    Now we're getting somewhere. I don't like the idea of kids being brought up by the state either. The interests of parents and the interests of New Labour are completely different and incompatible with one another. This is extremely difficult.

    I believe women should be allowed to work or stay at home, and have a genuine choice about it. (I hope I don't sound like David Cameron here) The Government has a role in this, but it is not the one that is being pursued now.
    Well, obviously. But why don't we start to say, both parent can take time off? So, Mum does some time off, Dad does some too? So that they don't only see Daddy in the evening when he gets in, then goes to bed. Or for a few seconds before he leaves in the morning?

    If one can take time off, equality allows the other too, surley? Aren't we past the days of "Men show now emotion"... aren't men allowed to want to spend some time with their child? I think both parents should be a given a choice in this matter - if you want to, fine by me, but surley the choice should be yours to make, not made by some outdated custom.

    And I still say Women should get the same pay as a man doing their job. Unless, of course, they are making a fuckup of it, but then a man would get his pay cut too.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    If one can take time off, equality allows the other too, surley? Aren't we past the days of "Men now show emotion"... aren't men allowed to want to spend some time with their child? I think both parents should be a given a choice in this matter - if you want to, fine by me, but surley the choice should be yours to make, not made by some outdated custom.
    Consider this. Remember when David Cameron said he'd be taking time paternity leave for two weeks? He was condemned for this by David Mellor, of all people. That was enough to convince me Cameron did the right thing. :p

    I have some idea about looking after a child, and it's safe to say I would have wanted to spend more time with him. I don't want to see men and women looking back at the past, saying "I wish I'd have spent more time with my kids". You never know when the parents or the kids will be gone. :(
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