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The amount of space been enclosed by the way is way larger then any purpose built death camps! Also the Nazis shanty towns they built for Gypsies and Jews and Communists etc, were tiny little cramped things. The comparison is unfair and misleading.
What about Jerusalem? Both sides want total control of all the Holy Sites, I am yet to hear a compromise over that issue.
There would have to be compromise on both sides about that that's for sure.
I mean in 50 years form nothing, the Israllies have built that. Thats a damn fine acheivemnet and impressive. Don't they deserve to have their country? Don't you think they earned it?
It was wrong for Palestine to be handed out like that. However many people, including myself, think Israel should be allowed to exist- which is in my opinion a rather generous gesture. However we must also ensure that the Israeli government doesn't take the piss and actually take more land that was allocated to it. This has happened and we must ensure all the stolen land is returned.
Palestine would also be a very wonderful place to live in, with historic cities such as Jerusalem, Mediterranean coastline and natural wonders such as the Red Sea, if it hadn't been the victim of decades of illegal occupation, illegal settlements, tanks, bombardments, Apartheid-Nazi Walls, no-go areas and barb wire fences.
Secondly, the security fence is a temporary measure. The Israelis have consistently explained that it’s a temporary tool to defend its citizens – but as part of a final peace settlement presumably including the creation of a Palestinian state it will be dismantled or moved outside of territory belonging to the Palestinian state.
Thirdly, while I’m sure Israelis will appreciate your ‘generous gesture’ Aladdin it totally ignores the fact that twice the Yishuv (the Jewish community in Israel prior to its creation in 1948) accepted the prospect of a Jewish and Arab state side-by-side – while the Arabs and Palestinians twice rejected the idea – and in 1948 even seeking war and destruction of the Yishuv, promising to re-enact a Middle Eastern version of the Holocaust. And that’s before we start looking at the ensuing terrorism of the Palestinians and actions of neighbouring Palestinian people.
Yet despite that – Israel has openly supported the creation of a Palestinian state and remains fully committed to the Roadmap for Peace. In order for this to happen compromises are required from both sides, Israel has largely shown its willingness to compromise. (The Palestinians meanwhile have elected Hamas – the terrorist group responsible for blowing up people like you and me Aladdin on a bus or in a restaurant).
We can both argue the history of this till we’re blue in the face but Israel exists, the Jewish community in the region emerged into a Jewish state and the Israelis aren’t going anywhere despite the fantasies of some extreme Muslims. A practical solution that will ensure safety and security for both sides is a prerequisite for long term peace and stability in the region. Israel has a right to safe and secure borders and while Israel has withdrawn from Gaza it’s unrealistic to expect Israel to withdraw in full from the West Bank. (Although Israel has stated its intention to withdraw from a significant proportion of the West Bank). For a viable Palestinian state that needs to happen – but it’s unreasonable to expect the Israelis to make all the concessions; the Palestinians need to renounce terror or dismantle their terrorist organisations.
Just because they really want to keep the stolen land, doesn't mean they have a right to.
Incidentally, seeing as Hamas said a couple of days ago they would be prepared to negotiate a full and permanent peace with Israel if the Israelis were prepared to withdraw to 1967 borders, the ball is indisputably on Israel's court.
No excuses left.
Israel has a right to secure borders, a full withdrawal from the West Bank would compromise that right - and given Israel's position in that it's neighbours are somewhat hostile I don't think Israel should jeopardise its security.
If you gave Hamas the legitimacy of a Palestinian state they would seek Israel’s destruction, if not simply finding new means to attack Israel.
No it doesn't. What a fucking ridiculous statement to make.
Did you know they dropped the 'destruction of Israel' plea from their manifesto BEFORE they won the election?
I bet you did...
No matter how many things they do, no matter how many gestures, I suspect you and others will always try to make excuses in order to keep parts of the West Bank.
I wish you would at least come clear and say aloud that you wish to keep the land just because, instead of coming up with endless excuses and pretexts that lost decades ago whichever validity they might have had. That would save everyone concerned some time.
I don’t know of any mainstream Israeli politician that has demanded a 100% withdrawal from the West Bank and come to think of it I don’t think any British Prime Minister or US President has.
A withdrawal from a significant section of the West Bank is realistic and practical; that is something around 90% is probably viable.
Lets also remember – that a substantial percentage of Israel’s population are Arab. With the exception of extreme right wing elements for Israelis this is not a problem and Arab-Israelis have rights few other Arabs in the Middle East enjoy – the right to vote in free and fair elections, a free press, freedom of speech, etc.
It's a shame that if there were a similar Jewish minority in a Palestinian state a pogrom would probably ensue. Prior to the 1948 war when Jews were driven out of the West Bank there was actually a longstanding Jewish presence in the West Bank. While withdrawing from the bulk of the West Bank is necessary for a viable Palestinian state I don’t think it’s that unreasonable to retain a tiny section for defence and practical reasons of the State of Israel and also the religious needs of a number of its citizens.
Then again, so are the citizens who vote them into power. Time to elect someone who pledges to abide by the law and to return stolen land, perhaps?
Excluding Jerusalem, which will be a separate problem, 100% is just as viable, so why not it?
If there were enough of them to make any impact in a general election, I suspect they would have never had many rights at all...
[/quote]It's a shame that if there were a similar Jewish minority in a Palestinian state a pogrom would probably ensue. Prior to the 1948 war when Jews were driven out of the West Bank there was actually a longstanding Jewish presence in the West Bank. While withdrawing from the bulk of the West Bank is necessary for a viable Palestinian state I don’t think it’s that unreasonable to retain a tiny section for defence and practical reasons of the State of Israel and also the religious needs of a number of its citizens.[/QUOTE] No, it is entirely unreasonable. It's not Israel's land to keep, and for as long as they put their fingers in their ears and shout la-la-la and hope that if they do it for long enough people will just give up and allow them to keep the land, problems and violence will continue.
Agree to return all the stolen land, then you will have peace. Not before.
In the past decade or more, every attempt to sort of the situation has been scuppered by the Palestinina side, specifcally Arafat. I do not belive that givinig back "supposed stolent land" would suddenly bring all out peace. The palestinis would still claim its not enough.
Isreal is here to stay, they should accept that fact. If they want to argue the case then do it diplomatically and politically, not by terrorism.
Rather, you don't want to believe it.
They have accepted that, a long time ago. Even Hamas has now. All the Palestinians want is to have their land back- which would still leave them with less than 25% of their original territory and Israel with the remaining 75% +.
Try to pay attention eh? :rolleyes:
any amer-british-isrlai-west are the bad guys eh?