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We need more guns not medicare

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Even more scary is the utter ignorance of so many of the basic concept of "Consistency/Continuity of principle" such that they ignore the similarities inherent in the pursuit of transnational war of aggression, detention without evidence of any crime (i.e. the vast majority of all "terrorist" detainees indiscriminately detained in Guantanemo, Baghram and countless other covert holding facilities around the globe) and other acts - rightfully likened to those perpetrated by previous powers - and instead attempt to evade reasoned scrutiny by appealing to dissimilarities of magnitude.

    The principle of atrocity remains consistent, the disparity of magnitude is neither the issue nor in dispute.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Even more scary is the utter ignorance of so many of the basic concept of "Consistency/Continuity of principle" such that they ignore the similarities inherent in the pursuit of transnational war of aggression, detention without evidence of any crime (i.e. the vast majority of all "terrorist" detainees indiscriminately detained in Guantanemo, Baghram and countless other covert holding facilities around the globe) and other acts - rightfully likened to those perpetrated by previous powers - and instead attempt to evade reasoned scrutiny by appealing to dissimilarities of magnitude.

    The principle of atrocity remains consistent, the disparity of magnitude is neither the issue nor in dispute.
    God, it's like trying to read Virginia Woolf. :thumb:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    God, it's like trying to read Virginia Woolf. :thumb:

    Clandestine uses big words and complex language because he thinks it makes his conspiracy theorist opinions more believable – although most importantly more influential to easily influenced young people on youth politics forums.

    It’s interestingly a tactic that he hasn’t always employed – if you go back and read his earlier posts (not his many posts advising teenagers on ‘oral sex’ and the like but his politics posts) he used to write in fairly plain and easily understood English before doing everything he possibly could to try and earn a censure from the Plain English Campaign.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    I've said some of their actions, in particular the building of concentration camps for the illegal detention without trial of individuals is akin to those built by the Nazis. And there are similarities, without a doubt.

    Where else are they gonna keep POW's if not in camps? It just makes them sound worse if you use the word 'concentration'. You show me proof for your argument, like show me proof that US camps are similar as Nazi Concentration/Death camps...

    To be honest I think Bush is doing a good job and I for one am supporting him, i believe in the long run he will make the world a safer place.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If only they were considered POWs, duckyduck... if only. The US government doesn't want to call them POWs so it can illegally imprison them without charge, torture them and deny them but the most basic of rights.

    Anyway, I've already laid out the comparisons between Bush's camps and those of the Nazis. What else do you need?

    Are you comfortable with so-called civilised and democratic governments ignoring the Geneva Convention of Human Rights and kidnapping individuals to keep them in cages for years without even access to proper legal representation and to routinely torture and humiliate them?

    Why do you think such camps are not in US soil in the first place???
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin - please tell me you're taking the mick.

    Or to rephrase do you honestly believe that Dachau was no worse than Gitmo.

    To compare things to Nazi Germany has become seriously overused and seems to fall into the hands of Irving and his ilk. It seems to make the death camps no more than rather harsh prison camps and to downplay the almost unique evil of the Nazi regime.

    If you want to compare Gitmo to things perhaps a rather harsh Colditz might be a better example. Or a holiday camp compared to Cuba's other prisons for disidentsrun by that 'nice' chap Castro . Or perhaps you might want to compare it to some of the Taliban's prisons or those under Saddam.

    If you do want to continue to compare it to Nazism perhaps you could point out the time when all Moslems have been jailed just for being Moslem. or the experiments the US is conducting on prisoners to see how long someone can be immersed in freezing water before they die. Or examples of the camp boss shooting prisoners for fun. or the guards taking away female prisoners for rape. Evidence of mass graves and typhus outbreaks caused by deliberate neglect might also be useful.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    He didn't say they were the same. He said nazi-style. And he's right. Detaining people in squalid conditions without proof or evidence seems similar enough to me.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    To compare things to Nazi Germany has become seriously overused and seems to fall into the hands of Irving and his ilk

    Still having difficulty grasping the concept of "Continuity of Principle", NQA? This sort of reactionist dodge doesn't become one who I recall claimed to be educated to graduate level.

    In truth, the comparative principle with what has become some sort of hallowed taboo, namely those perpetrated by the Nazis, is perfectly sound. What has become tiresome is the disingenuous and cowardly dodge of those who presume our nations and leaders immune from descent into the same character mold today.

    The more people dismiss any discussion of the similarity of incremental exceptionalism taking hold in the US and UK governments, the less hindered they are in their progression down that path of unaccountable abuse of power.

    Continuity of principle, ol chap. Your arguments pertaining to magnitude of atrocities remain a nonsequitor.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Aladdin wrote:
    We can still reflect on the evilness, nastines and unpleasantness of the government of G. W. Bush though, can't we?

    I suspect very few of those foolish enough to vote for the Republicans did so because of their domestic policies on health. They were in fact led to believe that voting Republican would keep their country safe against bad old terrorists. I'm sure many who voted Republican are now wishing their vote had gone elsewhere...

    No, it was to stop gays getting married. Kids can die in Iraq, the economy can be shot to pieces and there can be rampant corruption, but so long as there are no men in frocks its all good.

    E/O/T
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