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we care, however the way many vegetables are grown for us is equally as nasty to the whole environment so its a toss up
and humans use tools to a large extent - fur was an extention of that as its warmer than many directly obtainable fabrics
was thinking of posting the picture of the squirrel skull that some guy done himself from a dead squirrel he found :thumb:
ones an endangered species i believe
Only if its one of these seals http://ecos.fws.gov/tess_public/TESSSpeciesReport the rest are fine
I hear they are real speedy
But since they are not, there is excuse for it.
We have advanced enough to find and use alternative materials. Food is one thing. Using the animals as some kind of high street comodity is quite another. We simply don't have the right to do that.
I don't care if Peter Burn's coat didn't turn up to be made from gorilla's fur. It was still made from a species of monkey. Anyone who wears a coat made out of monkeys is an utter cunt. Period.
its all dead animals.
You either dont mind having animals unecessarily die for your benefit or you do, otherwise you are a HYPOCRITE.
Meat is unneccessary in the western world, and so is fur (well, in this climate anyway)
You DONT need meat, you just prefer to eat it - same as me. I love it. I was veggie for 11 years but gave up because I prefer eating meat. I tried it again a couple of years ago, but gave up after 6 months because like to eat meat.
I had a fur coat once! it was sooperdooper warm. much much warmer and softer than the fake fur coat i had that was almost identical. my sheepskin jacket was also much much warmer than my cotton padded jacket.
The fur trade is cruel and exploitative, and so is the meat and dairy trade.
We kill animals because we want to eat them and wear their skins.
your shoes are probably made from cow-fur. Its still the fur trade really.
who gives a fuck if someone eats the mink. its dead anyway.
And why is it worse for a "lady" to show off her new fur coat, than for some lad to be wearing brand new leather trainers every 6 months in the latest style?
agree on the last part
but imo as long as the long term future of a species isnt threatened, i think we really do have the right to do what we want with animals, nothings perfect in that sense but its realistic
i don't get how we're above our natural functions, we eat and personally i eat what i can get my hands on and enjoy
eating isnt just for nutritions sake, its a very enjoyable part of life
im sure for a tiger thats eating me (from me trying to wrestle one in the future) itll be exactly the same
Agreed.
I don't wear fur, leather, eat meat and now eat very little dairy. My main though on people wearing fur is how self-indulgent they are, and I never know whether to laugh or cry when I see people wearing it because they look ugly and seem to take pride in wearing another creature's hide as a second skin. I just can't understand it. I'll make it clear now that I'm not talking about the wilds of Siberia, but people who wear it in countries like our own and America...where is an obvious, measured choice.
I don't think PETA should be used as a yardstick, or seen as the anti-fur person's Animal Rights group of choice, because I along with many other find them reprehensible.
YOU might consider meat unnecessary. I don't. I need meat.
There are trillions of alternatives to fur- many of them actually far warmer. If synthetic coats are good for Everest climbers, they're good for all of us.
Some meat and dairy trade might be cruel. Some of it is not.
You're missing the point. The immense majority of human beings eat meat. Beef being one of the main options. You might as well make maximum use of the cow, since I can pretty much guarantee you mankind will continue to eat meat for millennia.
There is however no point whatsoever in farming and breeding minks (let alone clubbing seals to death) other than make pretentious coats for egomaniac ladies with more money than sense. There are plenty of alternatives.
Get Prada or Christian Dior to make a designer fake fur coat and charge £10k a piece and the ladies will very soon forget about real fur and switch to the more expensive and exclusive one. Because that is what it all boils down to.
It's intensive farming we have to get away from. The monkeys used for that coat probably had a better quality of life than the turkeys that went on a lot of people tables at Christmas.
So says my brother. And I kind of agree with him.
Who says we don't have the right to do that? Of course we have the right, just as any animal has the right to kill others. To use animals for food or fur for our own benefit (both unneccessarily) is the essence of nature.
Other than perhaps a few skimos, man has not used seals as a source of clothing, on account of not many of them being around. But even if it occasionally happened out of need in the past, it needn't happen today in the 21st century.
The only reason seals and mink are killed is because fur is fashionable, not because their fur is really demanded to cater for the clothing needs of humankind.
Do you think is acceptable, for instance, to kill gorillas and make ashtrays out of their hands?
As you correctly identified, vegetables don't have a brain, they don't have a central nervous system, they don't think, they aren't self-aware, they can't feel physical pain - therefore there is a big difference between taking away the life of an animal, and killing a vegetable. You're right in the sense that it is still killing, but the point is you wouldn't be making the vegetable suffer.
The only thing that has made it natural for us to eat meat is the fact that we have evolved to eat it. This is because back in caveman days, in the winters where nothing grew, eating meat was pretty much the only option for survival. Who knows, in a few million years we could evolve to have teeth that were suited only to eating vegetables because we no longer use our canines in the way that they were originally intended.
You can still live a healthy life without meat. I don't have anything against people that do eat meat, but it isn't just because it is natural - it is because you have been bought up in a society where it comes pre-packaged in a supermarket, you don't have to do anything to get it and it is something that many people don't even question.
I do see Rainbow's point - in a way it is like you are selecting a few animals (based on looks, or social acceptability to keep the animal as a pet, or whatever) to preserve, nurture and keep alive, whilst at the same time you are happy to partake in the killing of other animals as a consumer of meat. I'm not saying that you don't care about animals because you clearly do, but I personally find it difficult to understand how people make the distinction. I view all animals as pretty much equal, so to me it would be like giving money to cat charities, having cats as pets, but also buying cat meat from the supermarket.
Ultimately I do find it hard to grasp how you can be a meat eater but feel so passionately against those who buy fur. Meat isn't a necessity, just because the majority of people eat it this doesn't make it any more right. Just because we have canines, it doesn't make it any more "natural", and even if it were natural, again this wouldn't necessarily make it right. The vast majority of people who eat meat choose to do so (I accept that there will always be a few for who it is necessary for dietary/survival reasons), just as the majority of people wear fur choose to do so because they *want* to.
I can understand the reasoning behind meat-eaters finding people who wear fur of endangered species quite abhorrent, just as I suppose they would find someone eating the meat of an endangered species equally as abhorrent. But if the animal isn't endangered, is it the case that people are against fur because they a) don't feel that all animals are "equal", or b) that it is just socially acceptable to kill some animals for meat and find the idea of killing other animals for other purposes quite abhorrent?
I know it comes down to personal opinion, but I believe it is possible to be in favour of killing animals for food but not for sport, pleasure or completely trivial matters (such as fur). That's how I feel and I don't think it is a hypocritical position, though I'm aware many people think differently.
Well, that's the way of nature. Ann Coulter has nothing to do with it.
If it's done humanely and doesn't endanger the species then why care?
So long as they ain't endangered.
Because it's a superfluous, needless, pointless killing?
How nice :rolleyes:
Actually, you do. Domesticated cats often kill mice, birds, rabbits etc and don't bother eating them - it's sport.
That brings us straight back to the killing for food argument.
There is no overwhelming human instinct to shoot animals for a laugh or to club animals who live tens of thousands of miles away to death and wear their fur because it is "fashionable". It is simply selfishness, egomania, cruelty and fuckwittery.
No quite. We need food to survive. Even if the entire world decided to turn vegetarian tomorrow it would take many years of planning, land conversion and alternative food resourcing before we could stop killing animals for food and rely entirely on non-meat products.
Killing for food cannot be compared to killing for pleasure, vanity or sport.
You what? Have you ever been in the countryside?
Have you seen foxes, who will break into a field, kill every lamb in it, and not eat a single one of them? Or move the bodies once they're dead. Foxes do that on a regular basis, they are murdering vermin. Lets not pretend otherwise.
Have you seen cats, who will bring home mouse after mouse, and not eat a single one of them?
Animals hunt for fun, just as humans do. It's human nature, animal instinct. Life.
As for the rest of your postings, what?
When you eat a steak you've made a conscious decision that your nice dinner is more important than Daisy's life. That bacon sandwich this morning was more important than Porky staying alive. When you eat meat you make a conscious decision that your taste buds are more important than the life of an animal. It's that simple.
Like it or not, your roast chicken, your chorizo and your rump steak is all about vanity and egotism. You have decided that your nice meal is worth more than the animal's life. The difference between that and deciding that looking good and being warm is worth more than an animals life? None.
What is the difference between eating and wearing Porky? You don't need to eat Porky, a bowl of muesli would have sufficed for breakfast. Eating meat is not important- otherwise we wouldn't be here now. Even fifty years ago meat on the table was a treat, a luxury, for most people- they survived on potatoes and vegetables for the most part.
Are you saying that you cannot live on the same diet your ancestors did? If not, why not?
If the animal was endangered that was wrong, for the protection of the species. But if it wasn't then there is nothing wrong with wearing a monkey's skin, in exactly the same way there is nothing wrong with my toasty warm suede and sheepskin gloves.
Eating meat is just as much about vanity as wearing animals. Do you seriously think the animal gives a toss why it's just been killed- do you think it feels better because it was eaten? If not, how can you justify your hypocritical opposition to some animals dying, and not others.
Animals dying, and animals being treated cruelly, are two entirely separate things.
Really. So when cats kill small animals and don't eat them, that's just instinct, whereas the human hunter is just being a fucker?
Aye, right.
And do you think that switch should be made, if it was possible?
There is a difference though. Humans have this thing called "free will" and "self awarenesss".
A fox knows what it's doing too, you know.