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yes blag ...i may well be ignorant in your book ...but that makes the common mans voice ...useless as always ...while you 'experts' ...sit their fucking garbling your theoretical fucking ramblings!
what are we going to actualy do about whats happening?
talk a pile of theoretical crap while we are slowly enslaved?
the tapping of mp's phones by the government ...doesn't scare you?
i don't know what we are going to do ...but i got the impression that was the point of the fucking thread.
tell you what ...lets just carry on talking about political theory.
Rolly is right.
What do you do?
They are bigger, stronger, better armed. There are more of them. They derive their strength from the tacit support of the people who they steal from to buy the weapons ith which they will shoot you. Every appearance of legitimacy is maintained while a looting and killing spree that's hundreds of years old carries on.
As long as that legitimacy remains the "governing" will continue.
The government exists for the protection of the people, or so the rhetoric goes........what do you do?
Suicide bombing anyone?
surely ...the least we can do ...is bombard them with emails ...the very least.
but will we actualy do anything at all?
no ...and they know it.
i'm old enough to remember when the sort of stuff happening right now ...was the worst of all possibles in the sci fi stuff i used to read.
of course it would never happen ...we would never allow it to ...
trouble is ...it is happening.
not by force ...not even by stealth.
the media just let us know occasionaly ...and that seems to make it ok.
then we get people like blagsta ...who i would have pressumed to be the kind of person who would be organising someone and something ...scoring fucking points about knowledge and theory in his armchair!
is this what we have been reduced to?
torture is not ok ...but we can disagree on the internet ...tapping mp's phones isn't realy scary ...cos we need to discuss political theory ...
what the fuck is important?
the most intelectual answer seems to be ...theres nowt we can do avbout it!
what the fuck would the political activists past ...think about the 21st century political intelectuals?
Meh.... they'll do what they do, nothing I can do to stop them, you know that Mr. Roll. It really is a free country, for "them."
Of course "them" are just normal men and women same as everyone else. They have no special powers anyone else lacks, save that some people have been convinced that they do.
The least you can do is top paying them. Every pound you send them will be spent building a better cage for your kids. Who in their right mind would do that?
That they were fucking lazy.
stopping paying them leads to faster incarceration.
downing tools and taking to the streets might be more effective?
probably but ...we're back to the comfort zone problem.
after all ...we've never had it so good ...
Well some of us might be, but most won't. You can't mess with Mr. Inbetween. That 80% block that doesn't give a shit either way will watch the 10 that do get fucked over by the 10 that rule. (As usual? fucked if I know)
Until the comfort zone is broken.
Sometimes. They are just people, remember.
I suppose, but what happens when we pick them up again?
Because we're living in an increasingly classless society. Do you think the Working Class can be defined as strongly now as it would say 30 years ago. Doubt it.
your average coal miner would have been dismissed by most of this lot as ignorant while his community was being destroyed ...probably why his community was destroyed.
those who could have helped were to fucking busy ...doing nothing but debating theory and feeling superior ...goodnight.
please remember that mostly these threads become slanging matches about who knows the mostest about political fucking theories.
rememvber ...these threads start out as alarm calls ...and get diluted into wishy washy fucking intelectualism.
the alarms keep getting switched off by the very people who I would expect to be those with some answers ...some hope.
but no ...every fucking time they become meaningless point scoring fucking egotistical bullshit.
goodnight ...and all the best for a dark future.
He thinks it's the USSR. Instead of actually knowing anything about it.
We certainly aren't living in a classless society. Come down Brixton, Peckham, go to Hackney go to Liverpool and then tell me we live in a classless society.
Working class means anyone who has to sell their labour to survive and has no control over labour or resources. What do you think it means?
They security services have been tapping everyone's phones for years (including MP's). Its nothing new. New Labour have done (and are doing) far worse. ID cards or the new terrorism laws for instance.
Well chuck some ideas around rather than insults eh?
If you have no concpetion of how we got where we are today (history) and no conception of how things are organised (theory), what the hell can you do?
What are emails going to achieve? I'll tell you - fuck all. We had the biggest demo ever against the war 3 years ago. What did that achieve? Yep - fuck all. The whole point of understanding history and theory is to be more affective than that. Organise, politically. Come on morrocan roll, do something constructive for a change rather than just posting on a bulletin board.
:banghead:
Yer average coal miner probably acknowledged the usefulness of Marx and a class analysis. They knew which side their bread was buttered.
Don't need to mate, come from a working class background and area myself.
I didn't say we didn't live in a totally classless society, just an increasingly classless one wjere Marxism has no real place. What you're saying is true enough but it's also a way of living and demeanour.
What have you done? Not saying that in a bad way just genuinely curios.
You don't need any conception of history to imagine a future. You don't need a theory to build freedom, you need a plan. Yu certainly don't need to be fixing things for everyone before you can start to do things. In fact, by trying to think how to fix the whole, you tend to become immobilised because of the size of the job.
It's like when you think of dealing with "he government" you think of this all powerful organisation with tendrils everywhere, as though they all have some telepathic link or something. What you actually deal with is some semi-intelligent office worker who doesn't really give two shit's either way as long as they can avoid making decisions and get everything over with as soon as possible.
So in the head - "government ooooh scary" in reality your usually sat in a small room with someone of limited intalligence and imaginiation who will always seek to avoid responsibility for their actions.
This never works. Any study of history will tell you that.
Imagine a huge cult, one you are born into, full of wacky rules like imagining a huge dragon in the sky that isn't really there which allegedly tells your leaders what rules to impose.
Your not happy with it but most people think you are insane if you point out that there is no dragon as they've been so well programmed since birth, so you and your friends kill the cult leader and seek to change the things "that the dragon says" for your own ends. This is akin to revolution, and it's easy to see that it's no solution to the problem of being governend by lunatics.
Tell me why the analysis of capitalism proposed by Marx, which posits that conflicts arise from competition over resources and that capitalism divides humans into people who have to work for a living and people who live off others, doesn't hold anymore.
I used to be more politically active than I am. Involved in hunt sabs, roads protests, Reclaim the Streets, anti-capitalist stuff. These days, I work for a charity, facilitate the service user group and am active in my trade union.
So explain to me just why Marx's theories on value, profit, commodity and class are no longer relevant.
Because it never held in the first place?
There are only two classes of people - those who want to be left alone and those who won't leave them alone.
i pressume anyone who sent emails to the home office ...lady jades thread ... were wasting their time as well.
http://vbulletin.thesite.org.uk/showthread.php?t=92573
how radical is radical these days then?
Yea where did you copy and paste that from?!!
Do you really think that people give a fuck that they're exploiting other people's labour, and do you really think the working class gives a fuck if they're being exploited, they know they're being exploited, fuck my da tells me every night he's being exploiuted but he can't do nothin and neither can you, so fuck away off with your Marxist crap...please!
Yea and where has it got you...no where! I admire your actions and determination but doesn't the futility of your actons say something about todays world?!
So what are you gonna do? Send emails while slagging other people off on here?
So instead of having an analysis of the situation so maybe we could organise politically, you want to just close your eyes? Fairynuff, Thatcher did a good job in stifling political opposition in this country. The last 25 years of neo-liberalism and individualism and the smashing of collective politics has left us...where? In a place where even discussing how and why we are exploited is laughed at.