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Whilst you can quibble with individual positions - the general trends are pretty clear.
The Anglican Church still has problems with sexually active ministers does it not?
In fact, the Anglican Church has a lot more problems with homosexuals and their lifestyles... they just choose not to talk about the issues. Don't ask, don't tell indeed. It's all about PR
But as I said earlier, the majority of believers, both Muslim and Christian, don't give much of a shit what their so-called leaders and representatives have to say.
Are you denying that?
At the end of day, people of your political views have a rather unhealthy obsession with people of Jewish descent, do you not?
It was the Leader of the Muslim council who said that, you would think that he speaks for his organisation, which represents mainstream muslim opinion in the UK.
When you're ready...
If thats not proof I dont know what is.
Islam is a backward religion and Christianity is much more suited to a liberal, secular democracy.
As NQA pointed out, its no coincidence that nearly all the most democratic countriesin the world are historically christian.
No, the most democratic countries in the world are the ones that have fundamentally rejected religion. It's only since we started thinking objectively and firing off all the bullshit that all religions consist of that we have improved.
Not that democracy is anything to write home about.
The last Pope (and it'd appear the new one too) was a rabid homophobe, sexist and fundamentalist with an unhealthy obsession with gays, abortion and contraception. Yet the great majority of Catholics are not homophobes or think women are little more than breeding machines who should stay at home.
Understand the difference now?
So once again, where's your proof?
I don't know... does Islam advocate selling your daughter to slavery, killing your neighbour for working on the Sabbath, avoiding touching women who are on their periods, slaughtering those who cut their hair on certain days or stoning homosexuals?
Those are the marks of a truly progressive and moderate religion, they are... :rolleyes:
Given the atrocities committed by the world's most powerful, deeply Christian democracy, I wouldn't be so quick to use that as a positive thing.
"Its leaders argue that crimes against other peoples should also be marked.
The council says it does denounce the Holocaust as what it calls "monstrous cruelty" but rejects the charge that bracketing it with other atrocities diminishes Jewish suffering.
Criticism
The barbarism of killings in Vietnam, Rwanda, Bosnia and Chechnya should also be marked, it says."
I personally see nothing wrong with the criticism, it is wrong to focus only on one people. How many people are aware that Gypsies, homosexuals, trade unionists, Christians, Blacks and Slavic people also died in Nazi concentration camps.
All victims should be remembered equally.
Yeah, we should remember those children... that was terrible. (Although, I know they meant the other side of the argument. But come on, they cant expect people to the checens after that.)
I can see their point entirley. We go on about 6 million Jews - and ignore 20 million Russians! WTF?
No the holocaust is different. It was an attempt to wipe out an entire people by a Government. Possibly Rwanda has some parrallels and Bosnia also had some elements in common, but Vietnam and Chechnya - whilst cruel and bloody were not attempted genocides, but wars in which civilians were killed.
but as I mentioned in my post there other victims of Nazi Germany's concentration camps that also should be remembered, even if we are not agreed on linking it to other holocausts.
But that's not what the Muslim Council mentioned.
Islam along with every other major religion is right-wing, conservative, reactionary and laced with intolerance and bigotry. Of course not all or even most Muslims or followers of any other religion believe the hardline stuff but many do.
With regards to the point on democracies I think the most obvious trend is that the majority of democracies are also the most secular nations. Christianity happens to be the religion that in its previous strongholds has suffered the most due to the Enlightment etc so it is bollocks to say that Christianity is linked to democracy, in fact the very oppposite in my opinion.......
And someone's missed the point and has no idea what Holocaust Memorial Day is about...
One of the aims of Holocaust Memorial Day is to include and "Provide a national mark of respect for all victims of Nazi persecution and demonstrate understanding with all those who still suffer its consequences." - you'll find out more about HMD here. And has somebody who knows people involved in HMD I can assure you that it is an inclusive event including all victims of the Holocaust.
Although I can explain why the Nazi persecution of gays is viewed differently by some to the Nazi persecution of Jews. People were not killed because one of their grandparents was gay. It was also far easier for gays to hide their sexuality – it was a lot harder for a Jew to appear a gentile than someone gay cover up their sexuality. (And that’s shown by the fact that 15,000 gays died in the Holocaust compared to 6 million Jews. The proportion of Jews killed in the Holocaust compared to the proportion of gays being far greater). That's irrelevant to HMD however since it does equally recognise non-Jewish victims - I wonder if perhaps some of those who oppose HMD such as the Muslim Council of Britain have some kind of agenda and seek to trivialise the uniqueness of the Holocaust by watering down HMD by including other atrocities – that whilst horrific in their own right are different to the Holocaust.
There is no real double standard, except perhaps in the minds of a minority of liberal airheads who aren't really represented on here, and i think you'd find that actually, people who criticise traditional British religion would gladly see the demise of Islam also.
I think both religions are full of reactonary shite!
fair enough but you have also failed to understand the point I am making and have decided to start making an assumption about muslim 'agendas', so not much in my discussing it further really.
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144936&command=displayContent&sourceNode=144919&contentPK=13782399&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch