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what are your thoughts on prostitution?

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    not for a million dollars kermit?.......

    Depends what dollars. Not HK dollars;)
    with 1 in 10 of us blokes paying for sex it has never been more prevalent but we're not at war are we? the trend is rising, it is considered acceptable to go out and buy a shag

    I'd disagree with that. Go and look at the findings of the Kinsey Report 60 years ago. Men have always done it, and always will do, I don't think it is a malaise of the modern society anymore than drug abuse is a modern malaise or more prevalent today.
    so what do you put it down to if not a lack of understanding between the sexes?

    Men wanting a shag, and having the opportunity of buying one. I think times where there are not strong community bonds increase prostitution, such as war time and the early Industrial Revolution, increases men wanting sex as a way of having intimacy, but I don't think prostitution is about anything other than sex for men who use them. They want sex, they can find a woman who sells it, so they buy it.
    i never said it was increasingly hard to have a relationship, just to find a satisfying and meaningful one, look at the divorce rates...i said it was a basic problem of communication

    I don't think its any easier or any harder than it ever used to be- the average divorced marriage lasts eleven years, even now, and that doesn't include the 66% of marriages that do not end in divorce.

    I don't think it has anything to do with a lack of communication, per se.

    I don't think it will ever go away, I don't think the objectification of sex and of women is anything new, much as think the media helps to keep the fire going. I don't think anyone can sit there and say it is a good thing to have in any society, not for prudish reasons but simply because it is not healthy for the mind or the body.

    Just as with strippers and nude models you will find women happy to earn the money, but that don't make it right, and it don't make it desirable. But it will happen, so the best thing to do is protect the women who are doing it. You will always find someone who will earn money on their back, because you will always find someone willing to pay them enough.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    same as it ever was.
    stop behaving as if it's new!

    Errrr...I'm not. :confused:
    we have never come anywhere near solving these problems ...never will.
    lets learn to live with ourselves and the realities and limitations we have instead.

    So you don't think we should strive for a better way of living?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i'm not sure what you want to know.
    prostitution has always been with us ...always will be.

    if you see this as a problem ...then i think you should accept that all the social engineering in the world has failed ...along with religion.

    after thousands of years ...we have changed nothing about humans.
    it's time we started learning to live with it ...that is ...live with our faults and failings.
    we cannot change human behaviour ...want a link?
    read the last few thousand years of history.

    all these attempts at change ...fail because they are attempts to control the uncontrolable.
    until we all have digital implants of course.
    so ...we need to learn how to live with each other and ourselves instead of keep on failing to change human nature.

    as for my feelings toward blag ...find one person out of all the people on this site i sent new years wishes to ...and there is only one.
    no it wasn't a piss take.


    You seem to think that our current society isn't engaged in social enginerring. :confused:
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    well my point about girls who have continous one night stands and prostitutes was in reply to some past a bit back were I was questioning whther the people against prostitution were against it because it was paying for sex and the toruble around it or that it was the sex itself that was so offensive.

    Obviously there is a difference between prostitutes and good time girls although some girls with as much as they do it and the littel regard they show for people invloved and to themslevs to a degree, it is hard to see the difference.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    You seem to think that our current society isn't engaged in social enginerring. :confused:
    you have missed the point again!

    we are always involved in social engineering ...always.
    we achieve better working relations ...the vote for all ...etc etc ...what we never achieve is actualy changing ...improving ...the human condition.
    why?
    cos we seem to believe that making rules and ordering people to say things and not say things ...to pay such and such an ammount ...is changing the human condition.
    it isn't and doesn't.
    it doesn't change violence rape murder greed ...it doesn't make people kinder nicer.

    it just keeps on facing humanity as if laws and institutions will change the human spirit ...it never has done and never will.

    instead of keep making laws against this and that ...laws to encourage this and that ...why don't we get real and look at the human condition?

    this is who and what we are.

    we can't change it ...we don't want to change it ...lets learn from that?
    lets learn how to deal with who and what we are.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    So you don't think that anything has got better? Ever? :confused: Hmmmm. Try looking at child mortality rates, lifespan etc.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    So you don't think that anything has got better? Ever? :confused: Hmmmm. Try looking at child mortality rates, lifespan etc.
    i was wondering when and if you'd answer that ...yes ...all under a capitalist system!
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmmmm...I suggest you look at Russia. Life expectancy has gone down since the end of state communism.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    So you don't think that anything has got better? Ever? :confused: Hmmmm. Try looking at child mortality rates, lifespan etc.

    Stuff has got better but that's through hard work, developing medicines and all. Yes we do improve ourselves but I think what he's trying to say that some things will always be evident in societies like crime, greed,rape etc etc...whereas you think if you somehow change the outlook of society and how people think these stuff will dissapear, sorry but that's not happening now and not going to happen.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Hmmmm...I suggest you look at Russia. Life expectancy has gone down since the end of state communism.

    Wasn't Russia state capitalist rather than state communism (state communism is probably a contradicition in terms anyway)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Well, yes. State communism = state capitalism (in simplified terms).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    Stuff has got better but that's through hard work, developing medicines and all. Yes we do improve ourselves but I think what he's trying to say that some things will always be evident in societies like crime, greed,rape etc etc...whereas you think if you somehow change the outlook of society and how people think these stuff will dissapear, sorry but that's not happening now and not going to happen.

    Except that there is reason to think that it will. There are very strong statistical links between crime and deprivation/poverty.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Except that there is reason to think that it will. There are very strong statistical links between crime and deprivation/poverty.

    But you can't possibly hope for a perfect society where there is no deprivation..I don't want to get dragged into a debate about anarachy again but the way humans have also organised themselves has always been into a hierarchical position, from the fuedal system to capitalism now there's always been a leader, a position of power higher than the normal person, I know you have two examples of brief time where this wasn't the case but generally you know what I mean. And that form of governance won't change mate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Except that there is reason to think that it will. There are very strong statistical links between crime and deprivation/poverty.
    tit would appear that we are living in the wealthiest ...most educated times.
    with health and social care that my grandparents couldn't even imagine yet ...here we are ...crime ridden and disease riddled.

    rape murder war and poverty same as it ever was ...worse than ever some would argue.

    there will always be a top and a bottom and some place inbetween.
    always.

    someone has to make decisions ...
    someone has to clean up ...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Crime and violence was much worse 100 years ago.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    Crime and violence was much worse 100 years ago.

    So capitalism is the way forward?
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    This has gone off topic.

    Now, firstly prostitution has many forms. And different prostitutes may offer different forms of sexual service, including dominatrix-style, and won't offer regualr sex. Some will only see select customers, not any bloke who walks in off the street.

    My feeling is that no woman should ever be or feel forced into prostitution. It is also wrong to blame the men.

    By a "pimp" I assume you are meaning men or women who recruit prostitutes against their will - otherwise having some kind of brothel owner who looks after the prostitutes is surely a good thing.

    In some ways it might be considered a good thing for society as a whole that a man who desperately wants sex can find it if he is willing to pay, as that may reduce the amount of rape or sexual/indecent assaults or proposal to unwilling partners.

    Now the system breaks down if a prostitute does not want to have sex with one particular punter who turns up. They should have the right to refuse service, but I would hope that any man who were refused service would just go and find another prostitute or would take it reasonably well and would not attack anyone.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    So capitalism is the way forward?

    Well, no, the opposite is. Capitalism was far more raw in Victorian times, which were, er, far worse.

    Crime down, violence down, prostitution and slavery down- all because of a move away from a pure capitalist state.

    Still, you're being stupid- again.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit wrote:
    Well, no, the opposite is. Capitalism was far more raw in Victorian times, which were, er, far worse.

    Crime down, violence down, prostitution and slavery down- all because of a move away from a pure capitalist state.

    Still, you're being stupid- again.

    :confused:

    You're trying to say Victorian times was more capitalist than now? Err...ok?

    Capitalism progresses, not regresses, we live in a more capitalist society than ever mate.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kermit is correct.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    You can't see capitalism (or socialism) as straight lines - in some ways we are more capitalist now (certainly more companies are owned by shareholders, rather than semi-feudal holdings owned by one person, the church has less power and private funding is involved in local government to a degree which would have bve inconcievable then), but in other ways we have moved leftwards (eg health and safety, recognition of trade unions rights).
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    turlough wrote:
    :confused:

    You're trying to say Victorian times was more capitalist than now? Err...ok?

    Capitalism progresses, not regresses, we live in a more capitalist society than ever mate.

    No, in Victorian times, capitalism had far fewer constraints with Liberalism being one of the main political agendas. State intervention became more prevalent after WW1 and the depression. The neo-liberal agenda of Thatcher, Reagan and now Blair seeks to go back to a time of no state constraints on capital.
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