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You can train yourself to be happy just as you can train yourself to be unhappy. Therapy works at the best level by training people to deal with bad things.
Some depressions are due to life experience, if someone keeps getting told they are crap they will eventually come to believe it, and will act as if it is a true. Self-esteem does have big part to play in this, of course it does, it is a common knowledge that depressed people only focus on bad memories, and not on the good memories, like how Klintock has described.
I think it's a mistake to denigrate the way health and chemicals can hugely affect mental health though. Post-natal depression rarely has anything to do with life experience, and everything to do with the trauma of pregnancy and birth, for instance. SAD is a recognised event. Being ill is known to seriously impact on mood; even being tired impacts on mood.
I do believe that chemicals play a role in depression, and play a huge role in some depressions, such as SAD and PND. But of course life experience plays a role in many other depressions, it certainly played a huge role in my mental health problems. That's why therapy is often the best treatment, simply because a good therapist will train the patient to deal with bad memories, and will train the patient to deal with success and good thoughts too.
The human race has had problems all along history but its manifestation has changed according to society. In Freud's time it was hysterias, now it's depression.
But independently of the cause of depression, the solution that has been proven to best work till now is a combination of both: antidepressants and therapy. Which is the treatment offered to most people who are depressed.
I don't think depression is more common at all. What has changed is that doctors now listen to it, mental illness is more understood, and you don't get locked up for mild illness anymore.
I must partially agree there. Society has changed to accept this more, and not just lock away and hide it, pretending it doesn't happen. But there has been a slight increase in the percentage of people suffering. It's nothing like 10 times more, more like 3.
No, I just deal with them (and other "mentally ill" people) for a living. :rolleyes:
When you don't know what to do, you are right. When you do know what to do, it's about as mysterious as a blocked drain is to a plumber.
I understand it a lot better than the "chemical imbalance" fuckwits. The chemical are produced by the actions of the "depressed" person. Once they stop standing like they are depressed, breathing like they are depressed, picturing things to themselves like they are depressed etc, guess what!
They are no longer depressed.
The thing that always gets me is how I can show someone how to do this properly (takes about 15 minutes max) and once they are feeling good, smiling and obviously happy, I say "are you still depressed?" and (with one wonderful exception) they change how they stand, move, breathe etc and go "yeah..." in the old tone of voice. Morons, most of them.
Repeat after me -
Every emotion is a process in the mind and body. Change the process and change the emotion.
No, it takes about 15 minutes to cheer them up. As soon as they aren't fucking concentrating or being reminded of the things they should be doing, they snap right back into being "depressed". Takes more work to then install it so it becomes "normal" because hypnosis is contraindicated for depression.
http://www.23nlpeople.com/clinical_depression.htm
http://www.23nlpeople.com/depression_sleep.htm
http://www.23nlpeople.com/psychiatric_interventions.htm
Have a read.
Neuro - linguistic programmer, clinical hypnotherapist.
Keep on reading, don't selectively quote.
It discusses what psychiatrists do first, then goes on to say what an Nlper would do. They are different, see. Given we don't have drugs and electroshock to play with, we have to be a little more inventive in what we do.
I don't. Any chance of addressing the point?
theres no such fucking place as america ...are you mad!
Even worse if you say you work for the government.
I'm sooo glad I read that. I am going to print it off as comfirmation of what I already knew was being drilled out of me- that I do not, and at no stage when Doctors and nurses have tried to get me out of their waiting room with a script for monts worth of pills, have clinical depression. - Please excuse the badly constructed sentance but hey us Not Clinically Depressed people have rants. aaarrrhhhhh
I have a army's supply of anti-depressants in my medicine cabinet that I don't take and didn't need. My combination of half-listened to PMT, migraine and sleep patern disturbances at times coinciding with difficult periods of life circumstances- do NOT equal Clinical Depression. Not that I would feel ashamed if they did, just that I feel vindicated in being annoyed by the 'fobbing off' of "take these chemicals for a few weeks and come back then". Bollox! Can anyone relate to this? I'm sure there are others out there who've (incidentaly) cried in the doctor's office, becasue they were tired/someone had died/PMT/they'd had a bad day, and instead of being treated for what they went in for, came out with a box of un-happy pills.
Aside from my rant, I suppose a point I'm making is that it's not just well-read/media hyped patients who present with 'neurological disturbances' but that time-pressured med profs come to this conclusion too readily too.
Above link to the signs and "diagnosing Depression" is actually the section I'm referring to.
To a certain extent it is though.
I don't agree with Klintock's analysis, but quite often depression is learned behaviour, in that people have learned to be depressed and totally without self-esteem. I don't think you can cure by telling them to stand up straight, and I do agree with Blagsta who says Klintock is a bit of a Walter Mitty character, but there's always some truth in all drivel.
Therapy is about teaching people to deal with sadness and deal with happiness.
But if you use another theoretical framework for understanding and treating depression, you'll find there are other explanations and the therapy would be quite different. For example a psychoanilitic therapist would laugh at the idea of depression as learned behaviour, they would think its a very superficial analysis. Consequently, their therapy would involve other kind of work, such as interpreting, making unconscious material conscious, digging deeper into the past, tackling defense mechanisms, among others. A systemic psychotherapist would focus much more on the context of the person, their family, their environment, interpersonal relationships and forms of communication, etc. And an integrative psychotherapist would combine different approaches, and so on.
My point being that I consider what I quoted to be true, but not the only truth.
Nope. I know it is that "superficial." OF ourse if you think that changing personal history, controlled dissociation and unravelling double binds is superficial or easy your just displaying your ignorance.
Unless that scan shows you have lesions of course. It's effects are devastating, but of course "it's" not an it, for a start. It's causes are as simple as they are irrelevent, in most cases. Everyone feels down at times, it's why it takes hold and escalates that would interest me. What do you get out of it, in other words.
It might be the sympathy from others...it might be the ability to whinge to friends and feel regarded.... it might be anything. You never know until you look.
Yup. Which is why it's really important not to have one. You are dealing with a person, not a theory. All theories allow you to do is come up with ideas to try with the price that at a certain point you'll stop coming up with new ones becaue the theory starts to get in the way.
And charge you every week for years, and blame you for not changing. Would you put up with that shit from a garage? "Well, we looked at your car and we think that if we keep checking all the components we might have found the problem in two years time. When we do, we'll give it back to you to fix, good luck!" :rolleyes:
Yeah, that's how dim they are.
There's only one reality. The problem with using theory to look at the world is that you miss bits. Doesn't matter what theory or field either. You look at the world as a chef, all you'll see is food. You decide to look at the world as a depressed person, all yu'll see is things that make you unhappy. And for these people, going back into the past (which no longer exists or needs to be regarded at all, mind you) you want to go looking for more shit to feel bad about?
Jesus.
I prefer Jack lemmon, but heigh ho.
Is that site one you've written then?
£95 as session
Nice to see that genuine mental health services that provide revolutionary results are available to all.
Not yet for me. Working on it. You can get clinical hypnosis/NLP on the NHS. Bupa also pay for it. If I learn something useful, I sometimes don't charge.
Nope. Just something I read that I broadly agree with.
That's Mr. Austin's prices. Perhaps if you disagree you should ring him?
Nice to see that some people want something without doing any work for it, or losing out. Does the real world work that way?
I'm not saying your therapy bullshit, I've met hands on healers before who claim that what they do work and people who claim to have been "healed" by them. I think a lot of things will work if you believe in them. Do you think that it could be used to help people with hidden disabilities?
Fair enough.
I wouldn't blame you if you did. One of the earliest books I read about this stuff is called "The Structure of Magic" and it's a good title, because from outside that's what it looks like. Touching is not allowed in what I do without permission. Ethics being that part next to suthex and all that.
So we would start with the wonderful question - how do you know you believe in something?
I'd then find out how you do it, and probably change things so you believed you were a happy person.
I do not know, sorry, it would depend on the case and cause.
I do know it could help those around them. I strongly suspect that a lot of those cases are more about one person's ideals not being met by another's actions. Adhd is a bugbear of mine, because I've seen some of these kids and they "don't concentrate on anything for more than 5 minutes" except if it's got nintendo on the front. Then they would sit unmoving for 12 hours straight.
"You know, Mum, perhaps you are just really boring?" Can't say that, of course. Course, Blagsta keeps accusing me of having asperger's myself because of my insistence on facts.
We seem to have lost the idea that everyone is different.