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Depression and Self-Harming - moved from health
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
Often depression has biochemical causes.Skive wrote:Bullshit. You know that you have this inbalance how?
Presumably doctors told my_name that her depression has biochemical causes.
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Do you know how ecstacy effects the brain?
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma_info7.shtml
Depression is a biochemical disorder. It now appears that it is caused by low levels of two neurotransmitters (chemicals in the brain that deliver messages to nerve cells). These neurotransmitters are called serotonin and norepinephrine. Severely depressed individuals don't have enough serotonin and norepinephrine in their brains, so messages don't get relayed to nerve cells in the way they are supposed to. This alteration in brain chemistry is usually temporary and can be restored to normal with drug therapy; it also typically goes back to normal within 1 to 3 years without therapy. However, when you're severely depressed, a year or more can seem like a lifetime. Because severe depression can be so disruptive and dangerous to your life, treatment is usually more advisable than "waiting it out."
There is also scientific evidence that depression is an inherited disorder--meaning that the tendency for depression runs in families. If you have a parent or sibling who has major depression, your risk of experiencing severe depression yourself is up to three times higher. (That doesn't mean that someone who doesn't have a family history of depression is in the clear: Everyone is at risk for depression to a certain extent.)
Depression is not purely a psychological illness--and it certainly isn't self-indulgent, or brought on by weakness or an unwillingness to take control of your life. It has a physical and often a genetic basis. And it is more than just the normal sad reaction that occurs when you experience a disappointment, a loss, or significant stress.
http://www.fbhc.org/Patients/Modules/depression.cfm
There is not just one cause of depression. It is a complex disease that can occur as a result of a multitude of factors. For some, depression occurs due to a loss of a loved one, a change in one's life, or after being diagnosed with a serious medical disease. For others, depression just happened, possibly due to their family history.
Factors involved in causing depression, include:
A history of depression in the family: It is believed that depression is passed genetically from generation to generation, although the exact way this occurs is not known.
There is absolute proof that people suffering from depression have changes in their brains compared to people who do not suffer from depression. The hippocampus, a small part of the brain that is vital to the storage of memories, is smaller in people with a history of depression than in those who've never been depressed. A smaller hippocampus has fewer serotonin receptors. Serotonin is a neurotransmitter -- a chemical messenger that allows communication between nerves in the brain and the body.
What scientists don't yet know is why the hippocampus is smaller. Investigators have found that cortisol (a stress hormone that is important to the normal function of the hippocampus) is produced in excess in depressed people. They believe that cortisol has a toxic or poisonous effect on the hippocampus. It's also possible that depressed people are simply born with a smaller hippocampus and are therefore inclined to suffer from depression.
Depression is a complex illness with many contributing factors. As doctors gain a better understanding of the cause(s) of the illness they will be able to make better "tailored" diagnoses and, in turn, prescribe more effective treatment plans.
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/45/1663_51213?z=3074_00000_1663_00_03
A mutant gene that starves the brain of serotonin, a mood-regulating chemical messenger, has been discovered and found to be 10 times more prevalent in depressed patients than in control subjects,
The mutant gene codes for the brain enzyme, tryptophan hydroxylase-2, that makes serotonin, and results in 80 percent less of the neurotransmitter. It was carried by nine of 87 depressed patients, three of 219 healthy controls and none of 60 bipolar disorder patients.
http://depression.about.com/od/causes/a/mutantgene.htm
Some types of depression run in families, indicating that a biological vulnerability to depression can be inherited.
Different neuropsychiatric illnesses seem to be associated with an over-abundance or a lack of some of these neurochemicals in certain parts of the brain.
http://www.medicinenet.com/depression/page2.htm
And for me personally, your right, I can not give you proof that I have an imbalance, but I, along with every doctor, psychatrist and therapist I've ever had can give you a very well educated guess.
Its genetic for me. My sister has it. My mother has it. Her mother has it.
I've been seen my psych and therapists since the age of 8. I have been on a handful of different SSRI's and different dosages since then. That is what takes my depression away. Until I apperantly seem to become immune to it. Yes, I have been told that is quite strange.
The most tramautic thing in my life is that I drive a Metro. I have virtually had nothing traumatic happen. I have had nothing that caused me to be sad.
It started when I was very young. I had feelings that I didn't understand and that I could express. I was an "angry" child. I was taken to a behavioral specalist at 7. After some sessions and evaulations they decided to put me on an anti-depressant. Guess what, it worked. Ever since then I've had 2 general doctors, 3 physcritists and 4 therapists. They have all came to the conclusion and told me that they truely belive that the depression suffer is purely chemical.
Its the imbalances thats genetic. That, or the lack there of its whats being passed down.
The effects vary from person to person. E lowered my mood quite badly, so i had to quit it. Your vulnerability has something to do with the length of your neuro-transmitters, or something of that ilk...
Chemical imbalance as the cause of depression makes sense to me - comedowns leave me depressed as fuck, once the chemistry sorts itself out i'm back to normal (or, at least closer to normal anyway). So I'd tend to agree depression is closely linked with chemical imbalance.
Seratonin is like a drug itself - it keeps you high. It also affects - or rather, distorts, your view on life...studies have shown depressed people tend to have a more accurate perspective.
I quit when I got depressed for longer and even when I was still "normal" I wasn't really.
New Scientist
Listen to this, about 2/3 of the way through.
There are all these 'experts' walking round telling everybody why they are depressed, but in reality they don't have a fucking clue.
Whjo's to say that chemical inbalances arn't simply another symtom of depression, not a cause.
The prevalence of SAD makes me think serotonin, among other things, does play a huge impact on mood. ADs are more effective than placebo, by how much depends on who does the research really. I don't know if you've been depressed or not, but chemcial imbalances do play a big role in depression.
Curing it isn't as simple as curing the chemical imbalance though, which is the point you're driving at.
Skive, you may not agree with things, but that doesn't give you the right to call them "bullshit", especially in this thread, when we're dealing with very delicate and personal subjects. This isn't the P&D or the drugs forums.
Did you listen to that sound byte?
As I just said though, what'ss to say that chemical inbalances arn't simply another symtom of depression, not a cause.
and neither has she any grounds for makign this assertion...
How does she know that when the scientific community still hasn't really got a clue? Surely statements like that only serve to spread the so called 'fact' that depression is caused by chemical inbalances in you box.
Of course the big manafacturers are quite happy to let people believe that AD's work, when in actual fact all the evidence shows that for the most part they are a load of bollocks.
I presume someone has told her.
I presume that person is more medically qualified than yourself.
Except that they do work. Hate to bang on about it, but they certainly saved my life.
It is proven that they are more effective than placebo, by many surveys. I haven't listened to your link as it is over 30 meg, I might do later if I get chance. I'd like to know the source for it, and a transcription of the relevant bit, if poss.
They are more effective than placebo, how much so is open to question. But I know they worked more for me than munching Polos would have done.
No drug is as effective as placebo's. They work on everything.
One of latest studies used the freedom of information act to gain access to all the clinical trials of AD's submitted to the FDA by big pharma companies. When all these published and unpublished trials were pulled together it showed that the placebo was as good as the AD's 80% of the time. Infact 57% of these trials failed to show any difference whatso ever between the placebo and the AD.
Food for thought eh?
In this case I don't think that means much at all.
Here you go Kermit
Your wish is my command!
Seriously, though, can we keep the debating stuff in here and leave the health thread as a place where people can ask and offer support.
Cheers :thumb:
Bullshit. SSRI's boost levels by hundreds of percent and no effect is felt for a fortnight. The why of that is fucking comical, I tell ya.
Unless the brain is damaged (lesions etc) that be bullshit, too.
Muscles get smaller when you don't use them too. The hippocampus is the bit of the brain used for measuring time. Doesn't time slow right down when you are upset?
There is absolute proof that any heightened emotional state used for an extended period of time changes the brain. Guess what this means? That it's not the brain that's causing the "depression", it's the "depression" that changes the brain. Horse - Cart.
For fuck's sake.
That's a lot of employment that would end if you were to suddenly find yourself A-OK, isn't it?
On the subject of placebo's - they do work for everything, and sometimes better than any known drug. If you've got a headache, and you know placebo's work one time in six, take seven.
One thing to think about here is the increase in technology and the increase in people reporting depression being higher than back then (I know somebody who was put in Denbigh institution for self-harm... To be fair, there was a big stigma on it back then and the thought of being locked up is scary, I doubt I'd have reported it).
They do. When you're stressed your body goes in to fight and flight and releases certain hormones in to your bloodstream... It's something that goes back to caveman times... A tiger jumps out on you and you're like "aww bollocks"... Your heart rate increases, your eyes constrict, your mouth goes dry and you no longer feel hungry because your main priority here is to either fight the foe or run away, not to eat.
Fight or flight.
So imagine your body is constantly releasing these chemicals, that will eventually screw it up a bit. Day to day 'dangers' or 'stresses' are however not quite as extreme as the sabretooth tiger, but our perception is something that affects what we see as a danger, what makes us anxious.
Depression is thought to be hereditary and thought to be brought on by drugs too, or so I've been told. This is how I'd explain it to somebody anyway.
The thing is the chemical part of it makes you feel shit, but there are often destructive behavioural patterns with people who have depression. For example withdrawal, avoiding anxieties and problems, self-mutilation, drugs and alcohol use and so on that make things worse for you...
What I mean to say is that in my opinion, people tend to look at depression in the wrong light, you can't understand it completely unless you've been through it and beat it. It's an illness, there is a chemical inbalance there, sometimes as a result of stressors in the past and oftenbad feelings are amplified by the use of drugs or the lack of exercise or forms of escapism that don't help (or if you've had a baby your hormones are everywhere... This backs up the biological idea). Sometimes it's about diet too... But it's also behavioural and cognitive too... In my opinion anyway.
Everything is opinions. Theres no medical test to prove someone is depressed, schitzophrenic, suffering anxiety etc etc, its all down to a persons(psychiatrist/gp)opinion that what that person says(some people exaggerate, others play it down) they feel isnt normal.
When i first became depressed, ive was convinced it must be chemical because life was and had been fine. After 18months of looking into psychological/situational/genetic(coping mechanisms/learned behaviour from my mother)/external factors theres plenty that could have contributed.
But who can say thats what caused it? Thats the opinion of my therapist.
The pills help. They numb me. They block out the very lows, and probably the highs, but it gives me the mental strength to tackle the problems underneath. In theory anyway.
But why argue about it?? Its not going to help anyones illness either way is it?
Well said. It's not an illness though, IMHO, it's poor use by the operator of their body and brain, unless there have been physical causes. Sleep is a major factor. Caffeine use is another one. Alcohol use too. Of course, and I understand this is an unpopular view, the person concerned decides to do those things, so it's their own fault.
Mainly it's making big bright pictures in your head of really shitty things happening over and over again, talking to yourself (internally) in a really shitty way using poor tonality and slooooow speech, slouching and breathing/moving as little as possible.
At the same time, put all the pictures in your head of good things happening and that have happened far, far away, small and black and white, turn the sound right down on all those happy memories and every future imagining of happiness. Speak with grating, nasal tonality to yourself.
Keep that shit up for a week or two and hey presto! you are now depressed. Comgratualtions, you've managed to turn the most incredible time for human beings to be alive into a bowl of dogshit. Well done you.
Pictures of good things you see in your head belong big, bright and close. Pictures of shit things happening belong far far away, so you know about them but don't have to feel shitty anymore. You deserve to speak to yourself like an encouraging lover would, so go and get to it. :yes:
I'll admit I don't have a masters in psychology, but even I think that what you've written is... Well, let's just say that you're in no way anywhere near qualified to give help or advice to people with depression... It's not as easy to cope with as you think.
Anyway, after trawling through a load of "I'm having a bad day, hug me" comments on the other thread, I managed to come up with the main consensus of what's happening.
Depressed people (now how they got depressed in the first place I don't know) are afraid of sucess, it's obviously got to do with confidence and self-esteem. They're afraid of the normal, because life has more compliments and good things to look forward to. But as Kermit said in the other thread, they can only cope with failure. Now how can a depressed person learn to focus on good things, to accept them? Learning to see only good things might also be bad, you need to have a balance.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that if you're feeling depressed, do something about it. If you think going to a shrink will help you, go. If you feel talking to your peers/parentds will help,then go. If you think taking pills (regardless whether they work 100%) will help, then take them. Sitting there wallowing in self-loathing/pity and cutting your arms will get you nowhere. Sorry if the last comment sounds bad but that's how I feel.