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There are so many wrong statements there I don't know where to start... :rolleyes:
ive said that here somewhere before
so i agree 100%
the eu would save more money through this than by removing the rebate
the abuse of the CAP is stupid like farmers claiming for 500+ sheeps killed by wolves, but onyl having 400-odd sheep on record
i like the idea of the EU, however it needs so much work id rather it was dissolved and rebuilt from scratch
Why shouldnt our farmers and industry be paid for and protected by EU money like the french Farmers and Car industry?
Also, having actual practical experience in the fishing industry i can tell you that the waters Britain fished were far from dying out of life, because if you had the slightest clue about it we fished in cycles as is standard British practice. The Spanish fish the same fish all year round in the same waters, hence extinction! Anyone can see that fish breeds grow and shrink in numbers in cycles based on their underwater movements, the fishing of the sea is a normal part of their movements since it has been done for like the past few centuries!
this country blocked the formation of protected regions of sea, which as stupid as it sounds would protect stocks as there would be enough fish surviving each year
we blocked it to protect british fishermen, whom have been overfishing for years, like the spanish
Britain already does.
Some countries get more than others, but with the exception of France getting unfairly more than it should through CAP don't go thinking that (again) the likes of Spain and Portugal get zillions billions for their farmers and industry while the British get nothing because, I'm afraid, this is also another myth. All countries receive funding- some a bit more than others. That's it.
Firstly, no waters are "extinct and devoid of life".
Secondly, the stock that is at greatest risk of extinction is that British delicacy, cod.
Thirdly, it is thanks to the EU that your family's grandchildren might have a future as fishermen. Seeing as the EU had the balls successive British governments lacked to tell the fishermen "I'm sorry, you are about to fish cod to extinction, and you're going to have to drastically reduce your quota", that is.
I really find it breathtaking that some people talk about "saving their jobs" and "right" to carry on fishing cod. If no quotas are imposed, if fishermen are allowed to continue to fish as much as they bloody want in the name of "jobs" and livelihoods, there won't be any cod left to fish within a generation, or two at most.
I mean, how stupid is that???
the amount of fraud in the CAP from farmers is stupid, and import and export subsidies/quota should be removed, dont you agree?
should the CAP budget be slashed so farmers can begin selling their produce for what it cost them to produce it
No, it should be slashed so Europe's farmers get put out of business, the countryside isn't horribly over used and distorted and i can enjoy a nice juicy sirloin for less than it costs to buy a lolly pop.
So, we're more competitive than them. Therefore things we produce (or provide, in particular services) are better value for money. So in those countries in the EU, it further deepens their problem. But it just booms our country even more. By being in the EU, it removes barriers to trade so the balance isnt obstructed. We gain out of it, to the tune of billions. We are a net contributor in terms of cash, we give them mroe than they give us. In terms of overall benefit, we basically provide all the services to the rest of europe.
France used to be an agricultural economy, back in 1967 or so, when we started thinking about the CAP. Now it should have gone past that, but do to piss poor management it hasnt and has thrown itself into the frying pan, and is basically getting worse. The riots a few weeks ago were fuelled completely by the inequity and 'poverty' if you want to call it that.
France's government know it would be suicide to give up the CAP though, because then when their figures are just barely in the black, remove the subsidies and they plunge instantly into the red, mass unemployment, massive social deprivation. Its the same story in germany.
However, as it stands, the new coutnries that have just entered the EU are going to be lower cost providers with regards to agriculture - you dont have to pay a labourer in poland half as much as in france. So inevitably, they are going to become the 'farms' of europe, changing from a dead economy (i say that because they've been recovering from their period as communist countries, where there is no real economic mechanisms in place) to an agricultural economy.
France and Germany need to change to manufacturing and/or service economies. They both know this, and are only delaying the inevitable. The UK as president of the EU knows its figures and that if we dont stop bailing out france and germany, the EU will literally go broke. We dont need any rebate either, we gain massively out of the EU, that was only ever to compete with France and Germany.
Its entirely possible in the next few years we'll see the collapse of the EU if France and Germany cant pull their finger out. They need to change, Italy has already started (note that their economy has been bloody crap through the transitional period, like ours was in the late 1970s where unemployment hit 4million I think), and Spain needs to follow suite.
Economics and Politics dont seem to go well together. What makes it worse, to an extent, is in many cases there is an electorate who dont realise the realities of the situation, and respond with emotional decisions, and its them that ultimately decide who runs the country. You want a long term economic policy thats going to lose people jobs but ensure stability for the next 50 years? No chance of getting voted in. You want to drop taxes, increase spending and raise the money some other way? Its going to cripple the economy as inflation spirals but people will vote you in.
personally we pay to little for production costs for food grown in europe, and too little in transport costs for good from 1000s of miles away
Which would mean in essence buying GM crops wholly controlled by corporate farming giants like Monsanto, ArcherDanielsMidland, Dow chemical and other US concerns, obtained through dependency inducing loan frameworks ala USAID, The World Bank and the IMF (see: Structural Adjustment Policies).
Meanwhile you'd also get to enjoy the utter ruination of the British agricultural sector (along with its suppliers) and resultant increased unemployment.
In short, be careful what you wish for.
http://www.freedominfo.org/case/cap/
Seems you don't have to look much further than Buckingham Palace.
Dumping is a seperate issue really. EU taxpayers pay farmers so that they can sell their goods below the normal price. So supperficially we are paying less for our goods because the CAP keeps the price below the market rate. However when you factor in payment for the CAP we are actually paying more than we should do......
and to add, we shouldnt be trying to produce the cheapest food, but ones that meet certain ethical standards in production and low impact on the environment as anyones an idiot if they think we can compare to say india in food production
we should only have import duties and quotas on foods that dont meet EU standards on food production
CAP(as we know it) + supermarkets = terrible for the UK
The power of supermarkets is quite possibly a bigger problem for UK farmers than foreign competition, as you say.....
As for Farmers, surely you can not compare subsidies British farmers get to French and German farmers?
Cod? you are talking baout one breed of fish that was having its regular decade cycle of reduced numbers in the north sea?
What about Haddock? Amadese? Tilapia? Etc? Etc? there are thiusands to choose from that are now TWICE as expensive to buy and sell in the UK because we are not allowed to fish them at all ourselves and HAVE to buy the left over scraps from continental fishermen, i.e. the Spanish as you can see by sinply looking at what is sold!
(Do not look in supermarkets, the fish they sell is litterally a breach of health and safety laws, look at real fish selling stalls)
You have to get your head round it.
In the EU, its expensive to produce food compared to third world countries, mainly because of labour costs. However, because of the CAP, and trade tariffs that only exist to nations outside the EU, we pay an extra tax on food from third world countries, so thats actually more expensive in the shops and stuff. So, we do 'overpay' because the farmers cost too much run to run efficiently. We could buy the food in and do something else more productive, but because of politics and all that, we give them money to do it.
If we left the EU however, the tariffs would still be in place, just there would also be a tariff on trade to the EU as well, so we'd pay tax on everything except food produced in the UK, presumably. We should buy from the lowest cost provider because that gives us the greatest comparitive advantage (we can buy it cheapest and use our resources most effectively) rather than smokescreens that - to put it bluntly - cause fake profit, and fake farming revenue etc. etc.
At the end of the day, the cost of producing food in Europe is too high to be viable except in some circumstances. We should import it. But then do you need to consider the additional cost of shipping in lettuces from... wherever they come from, rather than buying them from the UK? Because you pay for the petrol, but what about the damage to the environment? Having 19081231896231 tankers floating across the sea cant be good for the world....
If British farmers couldnt compete internationally (i.e. they tried to compete on low-cost and not high-quality, as they should) and become unemployed, then good. Sorry to be brutal, but then they could get a job thats more productive to our economy. One of the fastest growing sectors in our economy for the past... 50 years even is the service industry. Have you ever wondered why you can get a job as a 'customer service assistant' or 'retail assistant' etc.
Chances are, however, that if the CAP was scrapped sirloins would be more expensive, because import tariffs would still exist, so the price of imports doesnt change, just the price of domestically produced stuff goes up to what it should cost.
we just pay a more direct price for it, and we dont pay for the CAP fraud that exists, so imo it'd still be better, and you could reduce VAT then also as the CAP is half the EU budget whilst the uk rebate is less than 5% of budget
But this isnt ont he rebate so i am going to stop now.
almost every species of fish is in decline hugely
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/sci_tech/2002/boston_2002/1825166.stm