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DWP are a joke

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  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No they don't.

    You're reading too many tabloids.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dwp

    Kermit, you've left me very confused...

    Part of you agrees that claiming JSA comes with responsibilities, but part of you wants to slag off the staff who are simply implimenting the rules. You seem to contradict yourself many times. Like most people who slag off JCP staff, you were angry because you didn't get told what you wanted to hear, and so you want to scream abuse at the staff.

    Do you remember writing this in another thread?

    "When I worked at Tesco I got abuse when there weren't any trolleys by the door on a busy Saturday afternoon. People who abused me were made to wait a very long time before they got a trolley, because all the nice people were handed one first. They also got "accidentally" hit by the trolleys, before we let one of the other trolley lads loose on them, screaming abuse at abusive customers."


    Well maybe all the posters joining you in calling JCP staff cunts should be glad you don't work in a jobcentre yourself, as if you applied the above attitude to jobcentre work, you would be no better than peachy69, would you? Probably worse. Think on....

    Blagsta...you really are a first class cunt. You're a P2W worker? You're happy to get paid for working alongside JCP staff to help clients out, but you talk about them the way you do? I bet you don't say this stuff to their face. What a fucking hypocrite! There are many, many faults with JSA, New Deal, etc, and all JCP staff know that, but if you don't like the rules relating to the benefit, tell Tony Blair, not the staff who just have to impliment them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Thanks for the good post Tool
    Tool wrote:

    "When I worked at Tesco <stop there ive heard it all> I got abuse when there weren't any trolleys by the door on a busy Saturday afternoon.<poor you, there is always psychotherapy> People who abused me <by wanting a trolley?>were made to wait a very long time before they got a trolley,<thatll teach them to want to shop there> because all the nice people were handed one first. They also got "accidentally" hit by the trolleys,<battery> before we let one of the other trolley lads loose on them, screaming abuse at abusive customers." <breach of the peace>?

    And heres you calling me a fool Kermit? Go back to Tescos, it sounds as if you were at the right mindset. FOOL
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:

    Blagsta...you really are a first class cunt.

    Charming.
    Tool wrote:
    You're a P2W worker? You're happy to get paid for working alongside JCP staff to help clients out, but you talk about them the way you do?

    I don't work alongside JCP staff (P2W isn't based in the jobcentre - I'm actually employed by a drugs charity). You also haven't been reading the thread properly have you?
    Tool wrote:
    I bet you don't say this stuff to their face. What a fucking hypocrite! There are many, many faults with JSA, New Deal, etc, and all JCP staff know that, but if you don't like the rules relating to the benefit, tell Tony Blair, not the staff who just have to impliment them.

    As I said - try reading the thread. You seem to think I'm slagging off all JCP staff - I'm not. There are some very good ones. However, there are also staff like peachy who have really shitty attitudes - and if I think someone's being shitty, yes I'll tell them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I'm also well aware that JCP staff only implement the rules and don't make them. However, good JCP advisors will listen to a professional like me, take on board what I say, read action plans and notes when faxed over, liase with P2W workers and attempt to find some kind of compromise. The shit ones will refuse to listen to a word that me or my client says force people onto shitty ND provisions when they know that doing so puts someone in danger of relapse, then make comments like "so and so's been signing on for x amount of time, they can't just do what they like" when they know full well (or would if they were doing their job properly), that actually the client in question has been working with P2W, getting trained up and gaining work experience in a field that they actually want to work in and will be ready to apply for jobs in another few months. They will acknowledge that recovery from addiction can be a long slow process and won't put undue pressure on people and cause them to relapse.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Blagsta wrote:
    A few things. Firstly its my tax money being used to increase the profit of a private company. That ain't right. Secondly, forcing people into crappy dead end jobs can be extremely damaging to their health. I work with recovering drug users, helping them access training, education and employment. The jobcentres often undo the work that I've done with clients by forcing them onto totally unsuitable training and "work experience" schemes (which are just free labour for private companies), putting them in danger of relapse. Unfortunately, New Deal is compulsory once someone has been on JSA for a certain amount of time and a lot of JCP advisors don't give a shit about individual people's needs - its all about the stats.
    Factory work is as much a dead end job as any, as is barwork and retail... Ever done any of those jobs?

    Very few people give a shit about the needs of others and the system certainly doesn't, hence why there's such a big gap between the rich and the poor...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    waster wrote:
    :rolleyes:

    You said some people are so judgemental, therefore, you are judging them.

    :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:
    If you read a lot of Blagsta's posts in the P&D boards, you'd be laughing at him accusing others of being judgemental. Whilst he's a smart guy (and mabe a nice guy), he's probably one of the rudest posters on that board and part of the reason people from other forums are reluctant to join P&D.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Oh really?

    So, Blagsta...

    "You seem to think I'm slagging off all JCP staff - I'm not"

    Really?

    "The jobcentre staff usually don't give a shit, except when it reflects badly on their targets."

    "a lot of JCP advisors don't give a shit about individual people's needs - its all about the stats"

    "Yes, well, this is the problem. Decent advisors seem to be few and far between"

    "Its JCP advisors like you that cause the fucking problems."

    "Yet another example of the shitty attitudes of some JCP staff. You seem to think that you're doing people a personal favour by sorting their claim out."

    You're a P2W worker, but you don't work with JCP advisers? Funny, all the P2W workers I know do, quite closely. How come you don't? If you don't work with jobcentres, how come you're so knowledgeable about New Deal? What qualifies you to slag off JCP staff?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    im sure he is a nice guy at heart
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Factory work is as much a dead end job as any, as is barwork and retail... Ever done any of those jobs?

    Yes thanks. You?
    Very few people give a shit about the needs of others and the system certainly doesn't, hence why there's such a big gap between the rich and the poor...

    duh, really?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:
    So, Blagsta...

    "You seem to think I'm slagging off all JCP staff - I'm not"

    Really?

    "The jobcentre staff usually don't give a shit, except when it reflects badly on their targets."

    "a lot of JCP advisors don't give a shit about individual people's needs - its all about the stats"

    "Yes, well, this is the problem. Decent advisors seem to be few and far between"

    "Its JCP advisors like you that cause the fucking problems."

    "Yet another example of the shitty attitudes of some JCP staff. You seem to think that you're doing people a personal favour by sorting their claim out."

    You're a P2W worker, but you don't work with JCP advisers? Funny, all the P2W workers I know do, quite closely. How come you don't? If you don't work with jobcentres, how come you're so knowledgeable about New Deal? What qualifies you to slag off JCP staff?

    How about reading those in context?


    No, we don't work alongside JCP advisors, we work in a seperate project. P2W is however a JCP contract (something you should know if you're a JCP worker), which is how I know about ND. And if you read my posts and don't just concentrate on the bits where you can work up a good froth of self righteous anger, you would realise that I'm not slagging off all JCP workers - just the shit ones. As I have said, there are some good workers - but IME, they are few and far between. Now whether this is as a result of the culture within jobcentres and the fact that the rules are often stacked against treating claimants as individuals or whether its because they're just shit is another deabte.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you read a lot of Blagsta's posts in the P&D boards, you'd be laughing at him accusing others of being judgemental. Whilst he's a smart guy (and mabe a nice guy), he's probably one of the rudest posters on that board and part of the reason people from other forums are reluctant to join P&D.

    Love you too. :heart:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Dwp
    Blagsta wrote:
    How about reading those in context?


    No, we don't work alongside JCP advisors, we work in a seperate project. P2W is however a JCP contract (something you should know if you're a JCP worker), which is how I know about ND. And if you read my posts and don't just concentrate on the bits where you can work up a good froth of self righteous anger, you would realise that I'm not slagging off all JCP workers - just the shit ones. As I have said, there are some good workers - but IME, they are few and far between. Now whether this is as a result of the culture within jobcentres and the fact that the rules are often stacked against treating claimants as individuals or whether its because they're just shit is another deabte.

    Listen, there are shit JCP workers, there are good ones, just as there are probably shit P2W workers, though you may feel you couldn't admit that. Being a 'good' jobcentre worker, though, doesn't mean just giving a client everything they ask for regardless. Most jobcentre staff do their best to a) pay people what benefit is due to them and b) try to help them to get back into work. JSA is a two-way deal, though. Contrary to some things you said in earlier posts, it is a requirement that to receive the benefit you are actively seeking work. I understand that you feel your P2W clients should be on IS, and most JCP staff would agree, but until the Government change the rules they have to comply with them, I'm afraid.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:
    Listen, there are shit JCP workers, there are good ones, just as there are probably shit P2W workers, though you may feel you couldn't admit that.

    I'm well aware that there are shit P2W workers and shit drug workers.
    Tool wrote:
    Being a 'good' jobcentre worker, though, doesn't mean just giving a client everything they ask for regardless.

    Where did I state that I thought that? Oh, I didn't.
    Tool wrote:
    Most jobcentre staff do their best to a) pay people what benefit is due to them and b) try to help them to get back into work.

    IME, a lot of JCP staff don't actually understand what it is like to be on benefits, to have a mental health problem or be in recovery from a drug problem. A lot don't want to know either (just see peachy69's comments).
    Tool wrote:
    JSA is a two-way deal, though. Contrary to some things you said in earlier posts, it is a requirement that to receive the benefit you are actively seeking work.

    Yes, I know that. However, seeking work doesn't mean that someone should be forced into any old shitty job or training scheme that comes along.
    Tool wrote:
    I understand that you feel your P2W clients should be on IS, and most JCP staff would agree, but until the Government change the rules they have to comply with them, I'm afraid.

    As I said - good JCP workers will use their discretion and try and work with the client and any other professionals involved in the client's care. IME, a lot of JCP workers don't want to do that.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Further...

    What Blagsta and a few others need to understand, in defence of peachy69, is that after years of trying to help apparently genuine, desperate people only for them to shit on you, it is human nature to become a little cynical, I'm afraid.
    To have someone scream and shout that they desperately need money to get to their nan's funeral (forgetting that they've already told us she's died 3 times in the past). To have someone drive up in a brand new £30,000 BMW and say they're desperate for a crisis loan. To grant someone an early giro to help them out, only for them to walk out laughing with their mates and (literally) shit on the stairwell. I could go on...all day. I hope you get the picture, though.
    I was on the dole for years, Blagsta. What you can tell me about living on benefits, I could write on the end of my cock. Sit on the other side of the desk a while. You see things very differently.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmmmm
    Get over yourself Tool. You're not the only person who deals with the disadvantaged and those at the very bottom of the social pile.

    Quite true. There are many groups (like Gangsta's) in the field. Unfortunately, we are the port of last call when it comes to the money for most people, and noting your living arrangements from your profile, I understand why I may not be a favourite of yours.
    I'm only trying to give a balanced, honest response to some scathing attacks which have generalised about staff in some comments. In actual fact, the staff at 'the bottom', who have to face the clients' wrath, usually are the best, most helpful staff. The shit ones tend to get promoted out of the way because they're no good with clients.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    .
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:
    What Blagsta and a few others need to understand, in defence of peachy69, is that after years of trying to help apparently genuine, desperate people only for them to shit on you, it is human nature to become a little cynical, I'm afraid.
    To have someone scream and shout that they desperately need money to get to their nan's funeral (forgetting that they've already told us she's died 3 times in the past). To have someone drive up in a brand new £30,000 BMW and say they're desperate for a crisis loan. To grant someone an early giro to help them out, only for them to walk out laughing with their mates and (literally) shit on the stairwell. I could go on...all day. I hope you get the picture, though.
    I was on the dole for years, Blagsta. What you can tell me about living on benefits, I could write on the end of my cock. Sit on the other side of the desk a while. You see things very differently.

    See, this is exactly the shitty cunty attitude of JCP staff I'm talking about. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:
    Quite true. There are many groups (like Gangsta's) in the field. Unfortunately, we are the port of last call when it comes to the money for most people, and noting your living arrangements from your profile, I understand why I may not be a favourite of yours.
    I'm only trying to give a balanced, honest response to some scathing attacks which have generalised about staff in some comments. In actual fact, the staff at 'the bottom', who have to face the clients' wrath, usually are the best, most helpful staff. The shit ones tend to get promoted out of the way because they're no good with clients.

    IME, the good staff tend to leave due to the sort of attitudes from other staff that you and peachy69 have expressed. You seem to think that JCP staff are the only workers that ever get abuse from their clients or see the shitty side of human nature. As GWST says - get over yourself.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    At last....!
    Yup, I'm biased and I'll freely admit it.

    I'm afraid that my experiences with the frontline staff don't tally with the picture you paint though. I was forced to sign on as a joint applicant, despite me being completely unable to commit to any job due to my full time student status. Despite the pair of us insisting that there was no way I could sign on, it was several months of arguing before they agreed that I could be exempted. There was one bloke in the entire centre who knew what he was doing and he couldn't believe that out of all the advisors we'd seen, not one of them had twigged that a full time student couldn't sign on. That one guy was an absolute gem and for the few that are like him I have the utmost sympathy and respect, for putting up with the shit wages, the understaffing, the abusive clientele and having to sort out the mess that their incompetent colleagues create.

    I'm not going to repeat previous comments about the several months wait without any money whatsoever.

    Phil at the West Road Jobcentre Plus, I salute you. The rest of them can take a running jump as far as I'm concerned. The place would probably be more efficient without them.

    Thankyou for finally explaining what your frog-prince wouldn't to me. You are right, all the staff who insisted you should sign on as a joint claim should have been shot on sight. EVERY New Claim Adviser should know the rules on joint claims. I cannot defend idiots like that. If they didn't know, they should have checked before putting you through that. I can only guess that training and understaffing are even worse issues up there than down here. I apologise to you on their behalf.


    Blagsta, if you are Brum-based, maybe you know two P2W workers called Kate and Monica? I've worked with both. Unless they say things behind our backs, they don't display your attitudes towards JCP staff. They are very friendly and know that we try our best. Your answers are leaving me very confused about your job.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:
    Blagsta, if you are Brum-based, maybe you know two P2W workers called Kate and Monica? I've worked with both. Unless they say things behind our backs, they don't display your attitudes towards JCP staff. They are very friendly and know that we try our best. Your answers are leaving me very confused about your job.

    I'm actually London based (although I have signed on in Brum). I can bet that actually a lot of P2W workers and drug workers do actually slag off the benefits system and complain about individual workers, as displaying the attitudes that you and peachy69 do makes our jobs really difficult. I had one client the other day, who is training to be a drug worker, going on training courses, trying to get voluntary work (I think he'll make a good worker one day), being forced onto a shitty ND scheme. I phoned up his JCP advisor to attempt a discussion about it to see if some compromise could be reached (which I managed to do with another worker at another office with a client in a similar position), only to be cut short, talked over, told that I didn't know what I was talking about, told that there was no compromise over ND, told that I was lying when I pointed out that I'd managed to find a compromise with another worker, told that my client couldn't just do what he liked and couldn't pursue the career that he wanted and in fact had to comply with what the jobcentre wanted him to do or they'd take his benefits away. What got my back up so much was that she was totally unwilling to listen to anything I had to say as a professional worker who should be liasing with her, she hadn't heard of P2W, didn't want to know, had no interest in anything I had to say (in fact was rather rude and talked over me and cut me off). That is the sort of attitude I'm taking about and it seems to be far too common in London JCP offices.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Hmmmm (Part 2)
    Blagsta wrote:
    I'm actually London based (although I have signed on in Brum). I can bet that actually a lot of P2W workers and drug workers do actually slag off the benefits system and complain about individual workers, as displaying the attitudes that you and peachy69 do makes our jobs really difficult. I had one client the other day, who is training to be a drug worker, going on training courses, trying to get voluntary work (I think he'll make a good worker one day), being forced onto a shitty ND scheme. I phoned up his JCP advisor to attempt a discussion about it to see if some compromise could be reached (which I managed to do with another worker at another office with a client in a similar position), only to be cut short, talked over, told that I didn't know what I was talking about, told that there was no compromise over ND, told that I was lying when I pointed out that I'd managed to find a compromise with another worker, told that my client couldn't just do what he liked and couldn't pursue the career that he wanted and in fact had to comply with what the jobcentre wanted him to do or they'd take his benefits away. What got my back up so much was that she was totally unwilling to listen to anything I had to say as a professional worker who should be liasing with her, she hadn't heard of P2W, didn't want to know, had no interest in anything I had to say (in fact was rather rude and talked over me and cut me off). That is the sort of attitude I'm taking about and it seems to be far too common in London JCP offices.

    Well, as with my answer to Kermit's beloved, I cannot defend that. All New Deal advisers I know would work with a P2W worker to help someone trying to get their lives sorted out. This thread has highlighted for me the disparity of staff around the country. What I objected to, in the early posts in this thread, was people I felt were generalising, implying all staff were bad.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:
    Well, as with my answer to Kermit's beloved, I cannot defend that. All New Deal advisers I know would work with a P2W worker to help someone trying to get their lives sorted out. This thread has highlighted for me the disparity of staff around the country. What I objected to, in the early posts in this thread, was people I felt were generalising, implying all staff were bad.

    If you'd bothered to read my posts properly, you'd see that I actually I pointed out that there are some good staff - they just seem to be the exception rather than the rule.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yes
    Blagsta wrote:
    If you'd bothered to read my posts properly, you'd see that I actually I pointed out that there are some good staff - they just seem to be the exception rather than the rule.

    Well maybe we can find common ground on that. You are right, but as I said in an earlier post, the better staff, who will go out of their way to help genuine people, are usually the ones who've been there themselves. I cannot defend the others. I simply ask you to believe that there are still many good staff around.

    My comments about becoming cynical over time still stand though, I'm afraid. The good staff will do their best to help genuine people until it becomes obvious they are arseholes. Then, I'm afraid, cynicism takes over. If you cannot appreciate that, you should spend more time actually observing life in a jobcentre.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:
    Well maybe we can find common ground on that. You are right, but as I said in an earlier post, the better staff, who will go out of their way to help genuine people, are usually the ones who've been there themselves. I cannot defend the others. I simply ask you to believe that there are still many good staff around.

    My comments about becoming cynical over time still stand though, I'm afraid. The good staff will do their best to help genuine people until it becomes obvious they are arseholes. Then, I'm afraid, cynicism takes over. If you cannot appreciate that, you should spend more time actually observing life in a jobcentre.

    Not everyone becomes cynical - only the ones who weren't really good staff in the first place IME. Try seeing people as individuals - it might surprise you. Bear in mind that maybe someone has a reason for being an arsehole - mental health problems for example, or being on the receiving end of a shitty attitude from JCP staff themselves.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Indeed
    Blagsta wrote:
    Not everyone becomes cynical - only the ones who weren't really good staff in the first place IME. Try seeing people as individuals - it might surprise you. Bear in mind that maybe someone has a reason for being an arsehole - mental health problems for example, or being on the receiving end of a shitty attitude from JCP staff themselves.

    Of course people can have reasons for acting like an arsehole. If they have mental issues or are heavy drug users, any decent staff wouldn't push them into something that was inappropriate.

    Look at it from other angles too, though. Should genuinely helpful staff be abused or even physically attacked for doing their job? No, but it happens a lot. Do you accept that as well as people with genuine problems like your clients, we also have to deal with people who are claiming fraudulantly? Picking your way through this minefield is not easy. How do we explain to a quiet, timid lady who's just come in to tell us her husband has died that the man who just threw acid over her has 'issues' because we wouldn't give him a giro two days early to buy drugs?

    You work with a narrowly-defined group of people who need support. I understand that, but what you need to understand is that the world doesn't revolve around them.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Tool wrote:
    Of course people can have reasons for acting like an arsehole. If they have mental issues or are heavy drug users, any decent staff wouldn't push them into something that was inappropriate.

    Yes and my point is that most staff IME don't acknowledge that people are individuals with problems. A lot of staff look down on anyone with a drug problem as scum.
    Tool wrote:
    Look at it from other angles too, though. Should genuinely helpful staff be abused or even physically attacked for doing their job?

    Yes of course, I've been arguing that staff deserve abuse haven't I? :rolleyes:
    Tool wrote:
    No, but it happens a lot. Do you accept that as well as people with genuine problems like your clients, we also have to deal with people who are claiming fraudulantly? Picking your way through this minefield is not easy. How do we explain to a quiet, timid lady who's just come in to tell us her husband has died that the man who just threw acid over her has 'issues' because we wouldn't give him a giro two days early to buy drugs?

    You work with a narrowly-defined group of people who need support. I understand that, but what you need to understand is that the world doesn't revolve around them.

    What you need to understand is that claimants are individuals and quite often jobcentres and their staff create more problems than they solve.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Keep the circle around...

    We can go around in circles like this all day, Blagsta.

    There's no point.

    Come and work in Brum.

    I look forward to it! :D
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I left Brum nearly 3 years ago and only go back to visit mates. A good friend of mine works for Drugline up there though.
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