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Data retention >> now Big Brother is watching you... all

Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
The European Commission wants to keep logs on all Internet activity & voice calls on the 450 million European citizens. What do you think?

It is a good idea in terms of checking out for terro activity and other things but don't think you think it's a major privacy concern having people see who you sent an email to, what time you visited this website or who you just called?
Details on a fixed-line call would include name and address of caller, number dialled, name and address of the receiver, the date and the start and completion times of the call.

Details of a mobile phone call would include the subscriber's identity number or SIM card and the location at the start of the call.

Internet data would include the IP address of the computer, telephone number of connection to internet, name and address of the subscriber and the date and time of logging in and off.


More info here:

http://hardware.silicon.com/storage/0,39024649,39154561,00.htm
http://www.epic.org/privacy/intl/data_retention.html
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Comments

  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Fucking pisses me off something serious. I have a right to my liberties.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As always, its dressed up in the language of reasonableness. This would help precvent child sex abuse and terrorism, who doesn't want that?

    problem is its not that big a step to banning websites that are undesirable, such as anti-Blair ones.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The European Parliament may be taking the Council to court over the issue though...

    http://www.euractiv.com/Article?tcmuri=tcm:29-149880-16&type=News
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    how can they sell you this crap!
    how the fuck does it fight terrorism?
    a terrorist is not going to say or print anything remotely translateable as ...when where who.
    it is so easy to talk about shopping at tescos and buying the latest mp3 ...planting bulbs in spring and taking the dog out for a walk.
    only understood by those it is meant to be understood by.
    crooks and drug dealers and smugglers of old ...all talk their own language.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    crooks and drug dealers and smugglers of old ...all talk their own language.

    :yes:

    Not that any beaurocrat knows or understands this.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    J wrote:
    No doubt somebody does already!
    rubbish!
    i can have a converation in front of people ...without any planned language ...and only the person i am talking to will get the message.
    your all being had.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I dont want people knowing what internet sites i go to or what i say in my emails or in my phone calls. Well actually it makes no difference really as im kind of boring at the moment, but eventually i might do some interesting stuff that needs to be private.
    Reminds me of "Enemy of the State" starring Will Smith!
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    every prison in the land has a censors office.
    all mail coming in and going out is read ...every friggin word.
    you can tell who the inexperienced are ...as they get marched down to the office for saying or recieving whats not allowed.
    the rest of the guys order drugs organise escapes etc ...all through the censors office.
    been like this forever ...so tell me again how this will fight terrorism?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    The grey bear of the east mates with the swan of the west.

    A banana crawls backwards to turkey, we hear.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    The grey bear of the east mates with the swan of the west.

    A banana crawls backwards to turkey, we hear.
    sort of but less dramatic.
    more like ...can you pop down the offy for me love on yer way home and get me some cans ...ta.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    The grey bear of the east mates with the swan of the west.

    A banana crawls backwards to turkey, we hear.

    Haha. The riddles my dealer texts me aren't far off that...
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Oh.
    Dear.
    Im fucked.

    Although, I will not stop torrenting until the arrest me. And the FBI is closing down websites already... how long till the EU join in?
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    don't buy into this bullshit ...this lie.

    protest!

    see thats where they now have us all over a barrel ...they know the age of political protest ...effective protest ...is gone ...over.

    gadgets have become our comforters.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    don't buy into this bullshit ...this lie.

    protest!

    I hope someone who has the ability organises one! I want to protest at this, there should be thousands in the streets of London! We should be up in arms!

    But as usuall, our freedoms die while everyone just sits back and it's all too late. Sigh. Too dumbed down is hte public, by the media and all it's lies and bullshit.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    All of this information is already logged. This is nothing new, and I have so little faith in the government and security services that I couldn't care less if they have a record somewhere in an underground vault of every email I send, DVD I buy and post I make on this website.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Kentish wrote:
    All of this information is already logged. This is nothing new, and I have so little faith in the government and security services that I couldn't care less if they have a record somewhere in an underground vault of every email I send, DVD I buy and post I make on this website.
    you will eat those words a few years down the line when freedom and privacy are some quaint memory ...why didn't we see it coming ...
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    We don't have any say in this. They just do it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Here's the problem.

    Those who like their freedom are usually argumentative, finding ways around the bueracrats, loopholes in the systems that are used to control most people. Over the last decade, the birth of the internet has allowed people with the same interests, no matter what they are, to get together in ways unheard of before.

    So what we have is a game being played out between those "in the know" who are more aware than ever of what you can practically do about day to day affairs (as an example actually getting first title and ownership on your car) to make life more difficult to those who would impede their freedoms, the 'crats on the other side who are having to be more ingenious to keep up and everybody else.

    This isn't about terrorism, it's about a growing awareness in the general population that the systems in place are designed not to work. You've got council tax protest witholding from the pensioners as one example, more and more people arguing in court about things that once would have just been a chain of payments to the treasury, and in general a heightened awareness about things that would once have been in the realm of "experts".

    So what do they do? They cut off the source of the information, leaving everyone back in the same disparate and easy to control small groups as before t'internet was invented. Even better, they only allow approved "information" like they do through the media.
    see thats where they now have us all over a barrel ...they know the age of political protest ...effective protest ...is gone ...over.

    It's not that political protest is over, it's more that those with a penchant for slowing the government down have instant access to information and contacts that only a few years ago would have been unheard of. Protest doesn't usually work, so other methods are being tried.

    Let's take speeding tickets as an example -

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=speeding+ticket&meta=

    Put "speeding ticket" into google and you get several pages of various legal strategies for "beating speeding tickets". Whether they work or not is moot. They take up time, resources and put power in the hands of the average man in the steet. What's the point of a vast impenetrable system is you can just go online and teach yourself how to navigate it in half an hour?
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Kentish wrote:
    All of this information is already logged.

    Well duh, i've had fun noticing when and where they log me. But now they can legally use it against us, in all circumstances. Which is what scares me aobut this.
    klintock wrote:
    So what do they do? They cut off the source of the information, leaving everyone back in the same disparate and easy to control small groups as before t'internet was invented. Even better, they only allow approved "information" like they do through the media.

    Yeah, but we always find a way around that too. They take down one source, two more spring up from agered people, mirroring what was up. By persecuting people, you only drive it furthur underground, make it harder to track as folks use more devious ways to avoid it. Would probably be a good time to put up the words of The Mentor again.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Yeah, but we always find a way around that too. They take down one source, two more spring up from agered people, mirroring what was up. By persecuting people, you only drive it furthur underground, make it harder to track as folks use more devious ways to avoid it. Would probably be a good time to put up the words of The Mentor again.

    That's my point entirely. The thing is, if you are one of those who isn't "in the know" all you can see is the evaporation of your civil liberties and can't see why, and even worse, you have nothing that you can do about it.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    By the way http://www.dataretentionisnosolution.com/ had a petition going on which nearly 60,000 people signed. It's gonna be sent of to the European Commission and the European Parliament. I wonder what will happen with this, probably nothing.

    I guess the people who never encrypted their email should do so :)
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    As I posted previously, The EP is fully prepared to take the Council of Ministers to court over the matter if they attempt to institute the original Commission proposal.

    The main thrust for these measures, it must be said, is the UK Presidency. Rather than blame the EU, begin with a fullscale protest against Westminster, Whitehall and #10. Otherwise Blair will again try to use the multilateral arena to divert blame for what he and his cronies have been working feverishly to impose not only upon the British public, but all other member states' publics as well.

    An excellent resource site for tracking the process and the positions of all institutions involved (with sublinks to specific reports on the matter including the UK government's position paper) can be found here.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    Ooh.

    *Signs petition*

    Edit: Oh, s'closed.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    always lie on the internet.
    when filling in forms do it different everytime.
    occupation income race gender etc.

    draw cash from the bank and buy with cash instead of plastic.
    i've been doing it since i first discovered the internet.

    cash ...i always try to have a wallet full of readies.
    today i spent around three hundred quid in cash.
    people look at you and presume your either a crook or are poor if you use cash.
    what you are is a revolutionary freedom fighter.
    but none of you will.
    few of you will do much about anything and the powers that be know this all to well.

    you think your free cos you can discuss on here.
    ten years down the line and you'll have very little freedom.

    ...and cash will no longer be legal tender.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Other tips?

    You didn't ask but go on then.

    Have different signatures for each set of people you deal with, that way you know what the craic is whenever you see it again. Have one incomprehensible one on the go at all times.

    Misspell your name when you DO use it, again so you know where your post is from.

    If you are with people you don't know, use different kinds of flowery language with each one when you are on your own with them. You'll know who talks to who and when they have by the changes in their language.

    i.e. I used to work in a chemical hellhole, I use to work in the chemical industry, I used to work with chemicals, I used to work as a chemist. WHen people come to remember what you said, they will use your phrase, which will come back to you from whoever they talk to about you.

    As Rolly says, always use ready money, always get a reciept. Always turn as much of your cash as you can into gold/silver/property. Cash itself is worthless over the long haul. When I am old and grey I will probably pay ten quid for a small loaf. This is why pensions are shit.
    few of you will do much about anything and the powers that be know this all to well.

    Yeah I think it's a great shame that so few people take an active interest in the things that really concern them the most, the money in their pockets and so on. Politics should be the first thing on everyone's minds. It isn't though, bread and circuses rule.
    and cash will no longer be legal tender.

    Did you know that legal tender can be refused as payment? I wonder what money really is? It used to be gold......what it is now I can't imagine.
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    How I plan to live. I don't want any store cards, credit cards, or such stuff. Cash. Loans are there only to pin me down. Keep me in place. If I can live off my cash, I shall. My money will be in cash with me or in the bank. As for pensions, i'll just set up a second bank account and keep the money there is the screwing about they are doing with it is anything to go buy. I just take what I need out, when I need it.

    However... you just got to remember, these precautions are sensible and keep you off the Radar for the most part... but if The Man picks you up, he'll track you down. You can't avoid it once you are spooted. All you can do is run. The Law is becoming stronger every day, the trivial ones. Whislt Murders and Rapists get away.

    It's time to make sure you are untracable if you have anything to hide. Live a simple but adequate life.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Teh_Gerbil wrote:
    It's time to make sure you are untracable if you have anything to hide. Live a simple but adequate life.
    i was going to say. if you have nothing to hide what's the problem. i always pay cash just because i'll spend the whole contents of my bank account if i don't not because 'the man' is out to get me. because, well, he's not. they're not gonna be able to read and listen to everything any of these 450m citizens do. they have their suspicians on who is invilved in crime and they will be able to use this information against them. and to be honest they probably will take into account coded language, they're not that stupid. they won't get rid of freedom of speech because no matter what you say England are stuck in their old ways and will basically tell anyone to fuck right off if they take away liberties. i agree that we don't protest so much and i'd love to get involved but someone needs to organise them. i don't have the power or the influence and i don't know who does. surely we could organise one through something like this site and people can tell their friends and get involved. maybe 'morrocan roll' if you're so concerned you should organise one as you are so concerned with politics and appear to be in know of it all. i don't know the ins and outs of politics and the legal issues behind. we just need a leader.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    if you have nothing to hide what's the problem.

    Because it's no-one's fucking business!
    If it wasn't against the rules of the forum, I'd suggest that you post your address and phone number up for us.

    Unless you've something to hide, of course.
  • Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,324 The Mix Honorary Guru
    we just need a leader.

    :no:
  • Teh_GerbilTeh_Gerbil Stalin's Organist Posts: 13,327
    i was going to say. if you have nothing to hide what's the problem.

    You don't do anything considered unacceptable or Illegal? Really? Wow, impressive. You realise how far they can take this? You realise already what a large population has their email read? Their transactions watched... it's all happening now.

    With this legislation, it is legal. Worrying.

    Klintock buddy, we need a leader figure. Someone who will standup and motivate the people. One person to inspire and show others they really do have the power. Not a leader, imho, as such, like Mr.Blair is... but you know, an inspirer.(Is that a word?)
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