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Dodging/avoiding taxes- Christians, do you do it?
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
An obvious spin-off from the pirated CDs thread... Christians: do you fiddle with your paperwork in order to pay less tax than you'd be due to pay otherwise? Do you seek to exploit loopholes, have offshore accounts or employ advisers to find the best way to devoid the taxman of some of their dues?
And if so, how do you make such actions compatible with your faith?
P.S. Question also open to people of any other religious faith that emphasises helping others and being charitable is one of the basic pillars of that religion
And if so, how do you make such actions compatible with your faith?
P.S. Question also open to people of any other religious faith that emphasises helping others and being charitable is one of the basic pillars of that religion
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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you watched that program too
Being a good Christian has nothing to do with paying taxes.
Tax is not charity, its theft.
The absolutely undeniable fact is that taxes help the poor and the needy. Regardless of whether one thinks taxation is unfair or things could be done differently, if you are avoiding paying the taxes you should by whichever means you are using, you are in effect depriving help to those who need it.
I find it breathtakingly hypocritical of people such as Thatcher and countless other free market tax-hating capitalists to see themselves as Christians and claim to be believers when their actions go in the face of just about everything Christianity is about.
Perhaps you're uncomfortable with my question. If that is the case you should perhaps why are you uncomfortable with it.
People who object to paying taxes are saying in effect "Well, I can afford private health, education for my kids and have my own transport, so I don't see why I should help paying for others. Let them work it out for themselves"
Despicable as that attitude seems to me, if some people believe in it, so be it. But they shouldn’t pretend to be also caring Christians, because they clearly aren't.
Tax is theft not charity. Some of it may have a good use; much more of it gets spent on Trident and chemical warheads. Christians should be against the use of nuclear and chemical weapons, and as such they have a duty to avoid enabling someone to purchase and use these weapons.
People do not have a social responsibility to pay taxation. People have a responsibility to ensure the weakest in society are properly cared for. Taxation rarely does this; compare NHS and welfare funding with funding for Lord Chancellor's wallpaper.
Taxation is not a good thing. To attempt to claim anything else is ludicrous. Some of it may, by accident, be put to a good use, but far far more of it is not.
Taxes do not help the "poor and needy". They help government ministers get fat off our backs; they pay for giant tents in Greenwich; they pay for nuclear missiles; they pay for a legion of pointless Sir Humphreys; they pay for John Birt. Very little trickles to those who need it- that's why MPs earn £70,000 + expenses, whilst JSA is £40 a week.
Unless you wish to claim that Lord Irvine's decor is poor and needy, and that arms manufacturers are poor and needy, I would seriously consider what taxation actually is about.
No, a miniscule amount (compared with anything else) gets used for the upkeep of nuclear weapons.
Nice strategy though: "I object to a small percentage of my taxes being used for a certain thing, therefore I am morally justified to try to avoid paying all my due taxes or as much as possible".
10/10 for creativity and lateral thinking if nothing else.
People have a social responsibility to help others in their society. Taxation is and remains the only effective way of doing so (otherwise please point out to me any country, any time in history, that got round to helping the disadvantaged in their society by different means).
Yes, you are right. 300 grand were spent needlessly on wallpaper and that neatly cancels out tens of billions of Pounds used to help tens of millions of people on a daily basis.
Nice logic.
Why isn't it a good thing? Because people have to part with some of their money to help others and the community and country they live in? Heaven forbid, what a diabolical concept!!!
They pay for public health for all, they pay for free education, they pay for pensions, they pay for welfare, they pay for infrastructure, they pay for services...
But no matter. A few people take advantage of it or are corrupt (hold the front page!) so let's scrap the whole thing eh? I'm sure Jesus would be absolutely proud of low taxation places like the US, where people with no private health plans are left to die dumped on the pavement outside hospitals because no one is prepared to foot the bill.
That is very Christian indeed.
There is nothing wrong with avoiding paying tax. Taxation is not morally acceptable; for certain things it may be justifiable, but taxation is simply theft and extortion. If you can explain how me being forced to hand money over on pain of imprisonment is not extortion, then I'd love to hear it.
Rich people actually donate a lot of money to charity. Many don't donate more because they feel they are robbed blind enough with the grotesque amount of tax wasted on bollocks in this country.
Tax should be spent on police, welfare, education and hospitals. Nothing else. No wallpaper for MPs, no John Birt "blue sky thinking", no tents in London, no Olympic wankfests in London, nothing else. Only then will you have a claim that taxation is morally justifiable.
If you can explain why it is acceptable that I have to work until nearly July before I get anything for myself then I'd love to hear it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that people who use loopholes are paying their due tax. using every loophole to your advantage is a responsibility you have to yourself and your family.
I know you'd love to see the rich on 95% income tax, but that comes from personal spite not anything more rational or meaningful.
That's not avoiding, that's defrauding.
Avoidance is using all the loopholes to restrict liability to nonly the amount you have to.
Why pay more?
what gets me about the answers these so called christians give ...is never anything to do whatsoever with the guy they profess to believe in and follow!
so what was jesus reply to this same question?
he asked for a coin ...pointed out that the face on it was ceasers and replied that yes ...pay unto ceaser what is ceasers.
fraud and theft are unchristian values.
it's studying the legal situation and making it work to your benefit.
i quite agree, and you could argue that tax is both fraudulent and theft.......and no aladdin i'm not uncomfortable with your question, only your obvious bias against religion in general (yes we're all bigots).......i can't really dodge tax but if I was fairly well off I don't think I would, atm I can claim back against my tax for things like travel and food expenses, and so i might massage the figures a little bit, but i don't lose any sleep over it.......imo my money is better off going to charities like Action Aid, I'd much rather give my money to them than the greedy politicians.......obviously tax also helps the poor, but it also helps blow up iraqis thousands of miles away......I'd just like some choice where my money goes.....
Tax should be spent on police, welfare, education and hospitals. Nothing else. No wallpaper for MPs, no John Birt "blue sky thinking", no tents in London, no Olympic wankfests in London, nothing else. Only then will you have a claim that taxation is morally justifiable.[/quote] Scheme is not 100% efficient shock!
All those things you mention only amount but to a very small fraction of all the things that get done with taxation. I'm sure you know this very well. Taxation on the whole does infinitely more good than harm, and the bottom line remains that unless someone comes with a real alternative taxation, with all its faults real or imaginary) is the only option we have. Unless we want to return to savagery.
To help others?
Seeing as practically all people who use loopholes simply multi-millionaires (who employ armies of accountants, lawyers and advisers to cream off as much as they can) I very much doubt the survival or wellbeing of their families is much at stake.
Unless you think providing the wife with a 150 ft yatch instead of a 120ft one is one of the basic responsibilities of life for a man.
In fact you will find out that the biggest tax dodgers and loophole exploiters are billionaires such as our beloved Rupert Murdoch, who I can assure you has no problem feeding his family as it is, and yet goes to incredible lenghts to list as many British companies offshore as possible- even though paying the full UK tax wouldn't even make a dent to his immense fortune.
Such moves are motivated by pure, shameless greed, and nothing else. It's all the more hilarious that Rupert Murdoch also chooses to castigate anyone who is on benefits through his newspapers, speaking of ''spongers robbing the State of millions''. You couldn't make it up.
Never said that. I would raise taxes to 50% on amounts exceeding 100k only.
And then again, if people paid the tax they were due to pay, there would be no need to raise them further. Ever again.
jesus himself is recorded as saying ...for a rich man to get into pardise will be as difficult as passing a camel through the eye of a needle.
probably cos he saw what you see.
there you go ...you and this guy have more in common than you ever imagined!
which brings me to ...many people who profess to have no faith whatsoever ...seem to be living it already ...
Well, while we are having moralistic arguments, try this one.
I give all my money away to charity and tell the tax man I've spent it all. Moral? Yes, but guess who is going to prison!
The problem with taxation is that once you have one group who has managed to legitmise theft in the eyes of idiots like Aladdin, it's impossible to limit how much they take. This is why taxation has this nasty habit of creeping up and up and up while services and good get worse and worse. There could never be taxation just -
Once you've agreed that someone else has more say over what you do with your time and your life you are their slave.
I am sure I've said it before but I am going to say it again. Taxation stops people helping themselves and helping others. Every time theres a problem it's "the government" should do something about it, not what can "I" do about it if it bothers me so much?
It's not in the interest of the "government" to solve any of the problems that plague "soceity", because then they would be of no further use and lose all that lovely power they have. Are they going to come in, fix all the problems and then retire? I don't fucking think so.
It's always best when dealing with the tax man to know the law, know your facts and just ask question after question after question and never take any position. Because the money grubbing little fucks like to pretend you have "rights" to make their theft look good you can at least make them look like fuckwits while they rob you.
So Christians believe in helping others (Quakers very much so, especialy being iscreet about it), fair enough... But why does Christianity get slated so much? There are probably tax dodgers in ever faith, with ever colour skin ect...
I just don't see why people give Christians such a shit time. They have as much right to a religion and to interpret it as anybody else. As long as they're not bashing people.
Which is Ironic coming from you who dosnt beleive in anything.
:yes: . So very, very true.
Thats the crux of the matter.
And people like Aladdin are so conservative, so married to their ancient statist welfare that they are unwilling to see this simple glaring truth.
This is such bollox we used to have that little tax, peoples problems are their own, type system, no state education, housing, welfare or medical care.
And guess what normal people didnt like it,and those business people who actually gave some of their income to the workers became hero's such a Joseph Rowntree
In a system of brutality imposed on people from above. Those people got a little freedom, a little say in what goes on and BOOM! we advanced technologically in a century in a manner that would have got you committed if you had told anyone about it in 1900.
Medicine, schooling, all came from individual men and women and then were taken over by force by the killers, thieves and liars.
No one was making him do it either, were they? So you are saying that the government isn't needed then, aren't you?
How do you work that out?