You would think they would learn?

Former Member · October 2005

But some people just annoy me with their lack of sense and I think they need a good slap.

The only 'crime' this girl has committed was to have an abortion, and become pregnant again, only this time, she has kept the pregnancy. I don't think she'll need a good slap, I'm sure she'll be facing enough prejudice as it is as a young, single mother.

I've seen much worse than that - hell, we've had women come in for a termination May '05, and be back in the clinic August '05 with a different pregnancy. I still wouldn't dream of judging them or their circumstances or suggest sterilisation against their will - it would make me as anti-choice as the people who hang around outside the clinic with their placards.

Former Member · October 2005

go_away wrote:

If we see a case we're concerned about, we alert all the teams, and we encourage the woman to have counselling first. We also have a client liaison officer on site to work with women on a one-to-one basis. There have been a couple of cases where abuse has started when the pregnancy was discovered. Can't blame them for not wanting to bring a child into it.

On the surface, it's easy for people to judge multiple abortions, but there's always stuff under the surface, sometimes stuff that we can't pick up.

I remember one young lady. She had filled in the form stating she had had 2 previous abortions, but when we looked on the system, she had 3. We took her aside to ask about it (a lot of the time they're just embarrassed) and she broke down explaining this would be her 5th abortion. Her partner had pressured her every single time, and every single time, she regretted it, and got pregnant on purpose thinking, "This time, he'll be different." He wasn't.

In the end, all the counselling, all the talking we did with her etc, didn't amount to much. She made a 180 and said insisted on the termination. Won't surprise me if she's back again sometime next year.

het getting herself pregnent wont solve matters though so its partly her faltas well

partners who refuse to use condoms, are just as bad as women who lie that theyre on the pill cause they want a kid

Indrid Cold · October 2005

go_away wrote:

You need to get into the psyche of the anti-choice. They're concern has *nothing* to do with the woman - as long as the pregnancy is continued, and the almighty foetus makes it, that's all that matters. Abortion, to them, is not an option, regardless of the circumstances, and no one should have access to safe, legal abortion. You should hear some of the stuff they say about women who die from illegal abortion...

Nice generalisation there, and in other things you've said.

Former Member · October 2005

what happened with the woman who basically had the severed genitals then?

Former Member · October 2005

Ballerina wrote:

I'm sure you remember the 14 year old girl who got pregnant, and the school tried to arrange an abortion for her without her parents knowing...and there was a big hoo haa about wether or not girls should be able to get abortions without their parents knowing?
So she has the abortion, then just after she turns 15 she's pregnant again....when asked she wasn't using protection :eek2:
You'd think they would learn wouldn't you? She kept it this time aswell.
To get pregnant once when you're underage would surely knock some sense into you to use protection next time?? I just don't get it.

In the papers she said she panned her second kid, wanted to replace it kinda thing. :rolleyes: stupid girl.

Former Member · October 2005

Briony wrote:

In the papers she said she panned her second kid, wanted to replace it kinda thing. :rolleyes: stupid girl.

well i dunno if she ever admitted it, but she said after she'd taken her abortion pills she changed her mind but it was too late... :rolleyes:
my ex best mate was planning to get pregnant once, she put a pin through a condom and was gonna sleep with this guy, he changed his mind at the last minute thankfully

Former Member · October 2005

Zalbor wrote:

Nice generalisation there, and in other things you've said.

Thank you very much, but I'm being quite specific in my choice of words. I've been involved in the abortion debate years before I even started my work at the clinic. I've never met an anti-choicer that wasn't one of the two things: a misogynist, or a masochist.

If you think that what *I'm* saying is a generalisation, please PM me and I'll give you some forums for you to see what they're saying about women who terminate. I won't give them the satisfaction of publicity by posting here.

what happened with the woman who basically had the severed genitals then?

I don't know, I was just in theatre that day. You have to understand that we only see them for a brief time - 6 - 8 hours at the very most if it's under 14 weeks, and that includes the consultation time. I know that she wasn't in for any post-operative checks, so I guess we'll never know.

het getting herself pregnent wont solve matters though

That was my point, however, the state of mind she was in, in an emotionally abusive relationship, she was clutching at straws for any comfort. And the comfort to her was to get pregnant again.

stupid girl.

Says the girl who not so long ago needed some help regarding the general ins and outs of the menstrual cycle? If you're going to throw stones, don't do it in a glass house.

I'd just like to remind people here that 1 in 3 British women will have an abortion in her lifetime. There's still quite a way to go before menopause, at least a couple of decades so I'd really hold off on being so liberal with the rolled eyes, because I'm sure you wouldn't like people making such judgements about you.

Indrid Cold · October 2005

go_away wrote:

Thank you very much, but I'm being quite specific in my choice of words. I've been involved in the abortion debate years before I even started my work at the clinic. I've never met an anti-choicer that wasn't one of the two things: a misogynist, or a masochist.

If you think that what *I'm* saying is a generalisation, please PM me and I'll give you some forums for you to see what they're saying about women who terminate. I won't give them the satisfaction of publicity by posting here.

My point was that you generalise about all "anti-choicers" based solely on the ones you see. How is that any different than (for example) saying all black people are abusers because some abused you? I don't think it is.
The reason those you describe have the websites you were going to show me (I'm not interested BTW, believe me when I say those people disgust me more than they disgust you) is that they think they have a right to interfere in other people's choices. Not everyone thinks so, and this is the generalisation I was referring to.

Former Member · October 2005

My point was that you generalise about all "anti-choicers" based solely on the ones you see

Well, I wasn't just referring to the ones outside the clinic, like I said, I've had a looong history of being exposed to that side (including Catholic schooling) but I've never met one to convice me otherwise of what they're like and the way they'll try to justify the things they stand for.

How is that any different than (for example) saying all black people are abusers because some abused you? I don't think it is.

Huh? I haven't been abused, but I have been sexually assaulted. I don't recall making sweeping generalisations about my attacker.

believe me when I say those people disgust me more than they disgust you

I won't take you up on it

is that they think they have a right to interfere in other people's choices. Not everyone thinks so, and this is the generalisation I was referring to.

Thing is, I've come across those who call themselves pro'life' to say, "I believe it's wrong, but I wouldn't interfere with someone's choice." In that instance, they get shot down by their own side, because, in essence, they're pro-choice. But what I'd call, a pro-choice-butt (extra t not a typo). If someone is pro-life, by my definition, it means they want to restrict assess to abortion, to the point where it's criminalised. If people want to correct me by showing me someone who calls themselves pro-life but is perfectly happy to let a woman have an abortion for any reason etc, by all means, do.

As far as I'm concerned, they should consider themselves lucky that I don't spit half the venom that they deserve.

Former Member · October 2005

go_away wrote:

Says the girl who not so long ago needed some help regarding the general ins and outs of the menstrual cycle? If you're going to throw stones, don't do it in a glass house.

And???

People who have an abortion, regret it, fair enough. I probs would. But most people who have an abortion dont go and get up the duff the minute they can. Pointless.

Indrid Cold · October 2005

go_away wrote:

Well, I wasn't just referring to the ones outside the clinic, like I said, I've had a looong history of being exposed to that side (including Catholic schooling) but I've never met one to convice me otherwise of what they're like and the way they'll try to justify the things they stand for.

There's a first time for everything. And even if you've met many, you've not met everyone. So it's a generalisation.

Huh? I haven't been abused, but I have been sexually assaulted. I don't recall making sweeping generalisations about my attacker.

Notice the "for example" part? I wasn't talking about you, not about anyone in particular.

I won't take you up on it

Maybe you should.

Thing is, I've come across those who call themselves pro'life' to say, "I believe it's wrong, but I wouldn't interfere with someone's choice." In that instance, they get shot down by their own side, because, in essence, they're pro-choice.

Are you saying that someone who believes in evolution but lets creationists believe whatever they want isn't an evolutionist?

But what I'd call, a pro-choice-butt (extra t not a typo). If someone is pro-life, by my definition, it means they want to restrict assess to abortion, to the point where it's criminalised.

My definition is that it's someone who believes it shouldn't happen.

If people want to correct me by showing me someone who calls themselves pro-life but is perfectly happy to let a woman have an abortion for any reason etc, by all means, do.

Perfectly happy? Surely not, by definition. Saddened but not obstructive? Surely many.

As far as I'm concerned, they should consider themselves lucky that I don't spit half the venom that they deserve.

As far as I'm concerned, here and now you're only showing a discriminating personality as bad as that of those you speak against. Really unlike what I've seen of you so far.

Former Member · October 2005

I've already made my point, I won't reiterate.

But most people who have an abortion dont go and get up the duff the minute they can. Pointless.

Some do. Some people want to concieve soon after they've aborted due to foetal abnormality for instance. And because most people here wouldn't have the first idea of why they do that, it might be a good idea dare I say, a little humanitarian to hold off the judgement.

Indrid Cold · October 2005

go_away wrote:

I've already made my point, I won't reiterate.

As long as you've read (and I don't just mean recognised each word in turn) what I said, I don't care whether you do. But don't close your mind.

Former Member · October 2005

I'm off to dry my hair, so I'll be back later if I'm still about, but just to address the last point,

As far as I'm concerned, here and now you're only showing a discriminating personality as bad as that of those you speak against. Really unlike what I've seen of you so far

To be honest Zalbor, I really don't care what people think of me when I'm describing those who are pro-'life' whether they are horrid sweeping generalisations or not. Hell, I may even come across as a nasty bitch when I discuss what I really think about those people. It really doesn't bother me. As long as women have safe, legal access to abortion, I don't mind what light I'm seen in concerning that. You know what they mean when they say, 'scratch a liberal...'

I would be interested to hear about your experiences however.

Former Member · October 2005

Zalbor wrote:

As long as you've read (and I don't just mean recognised each word in turn) what I said, I don't care whether you do. But don't close your mind.

Sorry, I was referring to Briony in that instance.

Former Member · October 2005

go_away wrote:

I've already made my point, I won't reiterate.

Some do. Some people want to concieve soon after they've aborted due to foetal abnormality for instance. And because most people here wouldn't have the first idea of why they do that, it might be a good idea dare I say, a little humanitarian to hold off the judgement.

I'm saying theres nothing wrong with an abortion, and I'm not saying you said I said there was, I've had a 'scare' before and thought of abortion. Me, personally think having an abortion then getting pregnant straight away is just pointless, but I aint been there so I dont no.

I think the girls mum should of supported her more.

BTW, I dont think this post has anything to do with the one I posted about the cycle, fair enough I didnt know the ins and outs, big deal, some other girls dont. You wouldnt like it if I dragged one of your posts up in a completely different post.......

Indrid Cold · October 2005

go_away wrote:

Sorry, I was referring to Briony in that instance.

Aplologies. The "Don't close your mind" phrase though still is for you. It's the worst thing you could do with it.
As for not caring what people think of you, I bet the ones outside your work don't either. Think on that. And what do you mean by "your experiences"? I was talking about myself. If you want my views, I'd be happy to discuss -as long as you didn't dismiss them right away. As I believe, "You can neither agree nor disagree with someone if you don't understand why they believe they're right."
Some other time though, I'm going to bed.

Former Member · October 2005

I think the girls mum should of supported her more.

Well yes, I think there's a lot to be said about a mummy who runs to the papers.

You wouldnt like it if I dragged one of your posts up in a completely different post.......

Well, if I accused someone of crap driving for instance, and mentioned in another post that I had 3 points put on my license then I'd pretty much get what I deserved. My point was I don't think it's fair to tar and feather this girl when we're all in the process of learning about ourselves and still looking for education on certain matters. Like I said, I think this girl is going to suffer a lot more prejudice than what's said on an internet message board.

Former Member · October 2005

And what do you mean by "your experiences"?

You said, "I think you should" when I said I wouldn't take you up on what you said about how those people disgust you a lot more than they do me.

I bet the ones outside your work don't either. Think on that.

I have thought about it. And then thought nothing more. C'est la vie.

Former Member · October 2005

MattLiverpool wrote:

Maybe she wanted to try an have another baby, for many reasons.

Either that or she's a f*kin idiot! lol

i still don't get whats so appealing about basically not having a life of your own till the baby gets alot older at age 15 because you have a kid! You won't be able to be a teenager.
More than likely she'll drop out of school aswell. There are 2 girls in my year at school, both 15 who are pregnant. One would have had hers by now i think. And i don't think they'll come back.

Former Member · October 2005

i still don't get whats so appealing about basically not having a life of your own till the baby gets alot older at age 15 because you have a kid!

Probably because you have no idea of what it's like to walk in her shoes? And only seen what's reported in news stories? Newspapers are there to sell papers. Think about it. And the HIV needle thing is an urban legend, have a look around in Snopes.

So nice that some people are so obviously Paragons of Virtue and so magnanimous that they're in a position to judge and criticise this girl, equally spilling out their fare share of schadenfreude. The real kind of attitude we need on a website like this, and then *I'm* the one told not to close my mind :yeees:

Former Member · October 2005

I think it was agood point to mention how many older professionals are having abortions too not just the young girls. I know that I went to a private clinic when my mate had one (I went to support her as a friend) and the room was a right mix of people. However the girl in the original post at the start-this is so sad. I just don't know hwtas wrong with people who end up pregnant again. Why can't they learn? Ok so I don't know the ins and outs of the details but surely the bad publicity she did get criticising her would have made her learn to be a bit more responsible?

Anyway I don't want to get involved in the whole pro life pro choice whatever as that wasn't what i was replying for BUt can I say I think its great to have the informtaion form someone who works at a clinic as the info given may actually hep someone reading to make a choice one way or the other-I mean that its nice to hear from someone who actually DOES know what goes on

Indrid Cold · October 2005

go_away wrote:

You said, "I think you should" when I said I wouldn't take you up on what you said about how those people disgust you a lot more than they do me.

I think you'll find most of our reasons for that are the same. And I have one more: They make some people generalise like you did and hurt the image of us all.

You would think they would learn?

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