Home Politics & Debate
If you need urgent support, call 999 or go to your nearest A&E. To contact our Crisis Messenger (open 24/7) text THEMIX to 85258.
Options

Nick Griffin charged with race hate offences

2»

Comments

  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Voltaire's "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." is a nice sentiment. However. he died in 1778 and i'm not sure that it transends the years in tact. I believe being able to express freely with out restraint or sensorship any opinion you hold can be incredibly damaging.

    Not every evil is subjective.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Voltaire probably realised that offence is created by the listener, not by the speaker.

    Words hurt no one - actions do.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Not every evil is subjective.

    Well said........
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    i disagree, voltaire's statement is timeless, and never more appropriate given today's environment of censorship..........racist people will be racist that is a harsh fact of life........mankind has thrived on freedom of speech for millennia, anything else is fascism........not that it should make any difference but i'm an 'ethnic minority', and had my fair share of stick for it in the past, racism is evil but so is criminalising it.........
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Voltaire probably realised that offence is created by the listener, not by the speaker.

    Of course offence is created by the listener. That doesn't validate anything.
    Words hurt no one - actions do.

    Don't be so naive.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    klintock wrote:
    Voltaire probably realised that offence is created by the listener, not by the speaker.

    Words hurt no one - actions do.


    Well said........this is the distinction that needs to be made, inciting racial hatred shouldn't be a crime, those who have been incited and get violent is the problem......
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    i disagree, voltaire's statement is timeless, and never more appropriate given today's environment of censorship..........racist people will be racist that is a harsh fact of life........mankind has thrived on freedom of speech for millennia, anything else is fascism........not that it should make any difference but i'm an 'ethnic minority', and had my fair share of stick for it in the past, racism is evil but so is criminalising it.........

    You seem to be a bit inconsisten in your views.

    On another thread you are agianst the 'promotion' of homosexuality

    Yet here you support this mans right to 'promote' fascism

    :confused:
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    Well said........this is the distinction that needs to be made, inciting racial hatred shouldn't be a crime, those who have been incited and get violent is the problem......

    Hitler didn't kill any Jews himself, just incited others to............
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    You seem to be a bit inconsisten in your views.

    On another thread you are agianst the 'promotion' of homosexuality

    Yet here you support this mans right to 'promote' fascism

    :confused:

    not at all, i'm against the promotion of homosexuality in schools at a young age where it doesn't belong...........gays are quite free to express themselves.........where am i promoting fascism?.........
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    No you are not but you are supporting someone elses right to.........
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Hitler didn't kill any Jews himself, just incited others to............

    that's bollocks, that's like saying tony blair's not responsible for all those dead iraqi civilians.........if you lead the country and decide policy then you are responsible.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    Well said........this is the distinction that needs to be made, inciting racial hatred shouldn't be a crime, those who have been incited and get violent is the problem......

    Do me a favour.

    The attitude "if his hands aren't red he isn't guily" makes me sick to the stomach.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    No you are not but you are supporting someone elses right to.........

    :confused: i'm sorry you've lost me............nick griffin isn't saying i must be a racist is he.....
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    that's bollocks, that's like saying tony blair's not responsible for all those dead iraqi civilians.........if you lead the country and decide policy then you are responsible.

    That's exactly what you're advocating.

    He only used words. Other people carried out the actions.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    that's bollocks, that's like saying tony blair's not responsible for all those dead iraqi civilians.........if you lead the country and decide policy then you are responsible.

    Well exactly so why are you saying that the person who incites the others to commit crimes is not a criminal themselves?
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Well exactly so why are you saying that the person who incites the others to commit crimes is not a criminal themselves?

    i think you're missing the point, tony blair ordered those troops to iraq, if the troops desert they go to prison............hitler ordered the SS and gestapo out to round up jews, on pain of death..........if nick griffin got in power and started ordering the death of asians and blacks yes i would have a problem, that's pretty bleedin obvious. your murking the issue...........there's a clear distinction between inciting and abusing the power entrusted to you, can you not see this.........
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    If you do things just because someone in authority tells you to regardless of your own moral sense then you deserve to carry the full weight of your actions.


    http://www.new-life.net/milgram.htm

    Read and shudder at how easily most folk will kill you.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I would dsy that being the leader of a political party is most certainly a position of power and that Nick Griffin has been abusing it........
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    apollo_69 wrote:
    i think you're missing the point, tony blair ordered those troops to iraq, if the troops desert they go to prison............hitler ordered the SS and gestapo out to round up jews, on pain of death..........if nick griffin got in power and started ordering the death of asians and blacks yes i would have a problem, that's pretty bleedin obvious. your murking the issue...........there's a clear distinction between inciting and abusing the power entrusted to you, can you not see this.........

    Don't kid yourself into thinking that the SS, concentration camp guards etc were forced into the job. They were carefully selected.

    I think that you're looking for a clear distinction that doesn't exist. Inciting racial hatred is abuse of free speech. Free speech isn't free.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    ffs if you somehow think i'm vindicating hitler because i think nick griffin has a right to free speech, you really are a muppet..........the BNP is just a rehash of NF, they didn't last long i dont think BNP will either, censoring it makes no difference, and sets a dangerous precedent..........what else will be deemed unacceptable in the future? our liberties are being curbed all the time, you lot can't see it fair enough........argh being dragged into another debate, need to work i'll be back later.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Free speech is indeed not free, but impose too many limits on it then it becomes a fallacy and not there at all.

    I personally don't think Griffin HAS gone too far, though I haven't seen the BBC documentary in question the BNP campaign about the problems with Muslim rapists in Keighley and West Yorkshire was more accurate than the anti-fascists will ever admit.

    Of course Griffin is racist, but there is no harm in being a racist. I find it very disconcerting how people are advocating jailing somebody for stating an opinion. I find the opinions of communists to be vile beyond all belief, but I don't advocate jailing them.

    Remember that tyrrany starts with a single step, and before long ALL "immoral" voices of opinion (such as, say, criticising the Government) can be illegal. It's a very slippery slope.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Toadborg wrote:
    Do you not think that for example it would have been sensible for the Weimar authorities to have locked up Hitler early on, I think perhaps it would have?

    QUOTE]

    They did and he used the time to write Mein Kampf.
  • Options
    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Given that he tried to overthrow the state by force a few years in a prison wasn't a particually harsh punishment.
Sign In or Register to comment.