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well the 95% im on aobut is the actual peopel who live on the island, who also have support of people in the government of island surely their needs come first
keep your hair on mate, i said western. You sound like a loosing man under seige, I'd give it up.
More to the point, in my use of "so-called western 'civilisation' " was that people seem to assume that west is what is civilised, hense so-called, and the civilisation in inverted commas was to do with the way that that western civilisation behaves. To continue on a Spanish theme, you'd think they'd stop fart-arsing around Gibraltar and concentrate on the problems they've got with eta, no? Especially considering the way the former government were behaving. And no country is left out of my disapointment. In the UK I feel my vote counts for jack-shit. Germany and France and breaking the rules they insisted on in the EU monetary union. Italy is lead by the closest thing to a dictator this countinent has seen since Mussolini and Hitler. And do not get me started on the way the USA is acting at the moment.
So don't think I've just got a problem with Spain mate, by your arguement the entirity of the continents of Euro-Asia should belong to Spain because it's all the same land mass. What bollocks!
Actually, if they took Essex I'm sure we'd probably be happier
My apologies to those who live in essex...
and whats so bad about essex??? u know no1 could take us on, couldent get close enough for the noise from the rude-boy car stereos!
Monaco is 'inside' France.
So Gibraltar shares the same land mass as Spain? Big deal. So does Portugal, but they don't count as they have always been a seperate culture?! :rolleyes:
Sorry but I don't think Spain has any logical claim to Gibraltar. Even though not ALL aspects and clauses of the Treaty of Utrecht are in operation today, what authority deemed the treaty null and void?
i am useful sometimes.
End of discussion.
You're a star
Agreed
Despite the tacky shops and plastic flags Gibraltar will always have a Spanish feel to it. That is simply because it is part of Spain- in fact it could hardly be more removed from 'Britishness'. 300 years have changed nothing.
They don't live there now though do they?
I suspect that Gibralter has got a 'Gribraltain' feel to it.
300 years has changed a lot - the people that live there now are British and they want their homes to remain on purely British soil - that I think, is the biggest issue here. Surely their voice on the future of Gib is the most important.
Actually, does that mean we have to create racial enclaves now? I mean, good God, what a blood stupid thing to say as a reason! I have friends who look scandanavian, I have friends from asia, africa, mates who look deeply celtic. In the cause of arguement; I look french (Norman ancestry) does that mean that I should either piss of back to France (despite my people having been in the UK for 1000 yrs), Normandy should be rule independantly by people who look Norman, or that Britain should now become part of France?!
There are people in Brazil and Columbia who look more Spanish than those on Gibraltar. Your arguements are positivly racist!
If they love Britain so so so much, if for them living in British soil is so immensely important, then what the flying toss are they doing living in a country 1,500 miles away from Great Britain???
Let me clarify that I'm not suggesting they should live. But their warped sense of patriotism appears very bizarre to me- a childish 'Good Old British Empire' mentality where their graciousness couldn't possibly cope with the ordeal of living in a 'foreign' land. Oh the horrors of it! :rolleyes:
Roughly a million British citizens call Spain their first home. Do you think that a single one of them feels their Britishness, roots, heritage or allegiance to Great Britain is being eroded in the least by living in another country? No, of course not. And they shouldn't. Because there isn't an issue.
Though apparently there is with most Gibraltarians. I wonder where is that coming from...
300 years ago - the world has changed a lot since then. Is history really more important than the people who live there now?
No country has an inherent right to any land!
Sovereignty only extends to terriotory internationally recognised as your own!
Ulster is on the same land mass as the Republic, yet the Republic don't claim it on that basis.
Is it me or does this sound like monocrat?
That is a very dangerous argument, Aladdin, it's a little bit too close to the "cricket" test proposed by Lord Tebbitt. After all, if, say, Pakistani immigrants love Pakistan so much that they support Pakistan and build mosques all over the place, why don't they just bugger off home? And why don't we just kick them out?
Gibraltar is the Gibraltarians HOME. They want their home to remain under British control, not Spanish control. If the invasion had been 50 years ago I would have sympathy with your viewpoint, but 300 years is a long time to still be bleating about invasion.
If the Spanish navy wasn't so crap you'd still have Gibraltar;)
well said mate
And remember
"The English the English the English are best! I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest"
"Rule Britania! Britania rules the waves, Britains never never never shall be slaves!"
Only joking lads.
But to be fair, as I understand it those in Gibraltar want to be independant, but for as long as Spain insists on sovereignty once the UK leave, they'd rather be British, and that is very much their choice.
personally they shuld jus b given indpeendence but considering spain would make them part of sovereign spain if that happened, its best to stay british til then
Good to have you back Luke anyway. Been on holiday?
Are they marching through the streets in protest at this humiliating insult to their national pride?