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Changing history....

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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by minimi38
    There is loads of evidence backing this up. Roosevelt had to amend the failure of the new deal somehow and what better way than joining the second world war.

    The failure of the New Deal is arguable. Certain groups did clearly benefit i.e farmers, trade unions, white unemployed males etc, faith was restored in the banking and financial sectors, the ending of economic depression, restoration of the brewing industries.

    On the other hand blacks although benefitting from the WPA and other agencies saw little improvement in civil rights and women rights hardly improved.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    I had read somewhere that D-day happened because Stalin was pressuring the Britains and Americans to open another front to take some of the pressure and weight from the soviets.

    That is one reason why the allies invaded Italy in sept 2003
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    amongst all these arguments though i have to praise and thank canada for their help and 30000 troops they sent to on d-day even though they had no real reason as they werent attacked by axis like america ad their only link to us was as part of the empire and to donate that many troops deserves commendation!


    and back to ussr they shouldnt have been recognised at d-day memorial as well they werent involved in d-day directly other than keeping nazis busy

    and the current german government should be invited as their only real link to nazis is the country, and the fact theyre thankful to those troops on d-day

    and also about russia, you seem have forgot that stalin by the time of the war, had killed so many of the ranking officers in the army for dissent against him the amount of soviet deaths is actually bigger, and not forgetting the fact the russians killed their own retreating troops(?)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by BlackArab
    The failure of the New Deal is arguable. Certain groups did clearly benefit i.e farmers, trade unions, white unemployed males etc, faith was restored in the banking and financial sectors, the ending of economic depression, restoration of the brewing industries.

    On the other hand blacks although benefitting from the WPA and other agencies saw little improvement in civil rights and women rights hardly improved.

    i done my gcse project on america before 2nd world war, and the new deal helped build up confidence in the country as a whole, and even though by that point womans and black rights werent that recogised still, the new deal did help A LOT of people

    but the war solved their econominc unemplyment problems with all their manufacturing of weapons etc
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by marv


    That is one reason why the allies invaded Italy in sept 2003

    :eek2: ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
    i done my gcse project on america before 2nd world war, and the new deal helped build up confidence in the country as a whole, and even though by that point womans and black rights werent that recogised still, the new deal did help A LOT of people

    but the war solved their econominc unemplyment problems with all their manufacturing of weapons etc

    I'm not disagreeing with you but you should note that unemployment between 1929-32 rose to 24.9% and had fallen to 15% by Sept 1939. Bearing in mind the world depression and stagnant export market that was a pretty good achievement for FDR.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    yeh im not saying that, i know unemplyment fell but it reached a bottleneck.... and when the war began for them in 41 they reached virtual full employment
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by marv


    That is one reason why the allies invaded Italy in sept 2003

    I must have been quite busy last september to miss that ;)
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Man Of Kent
    Which surely provides the proof that you belief on the D-Day invasion is crap.

    Had the Allies really wanted to stop the Russians, then not feeding them would have been a good start...

    lol and stop the Russians tying up a few million troops? I think not.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by wheresmyplacebo
    and back to ussr they shouldnt have been recognised at d-day memorial as well they werent involved in d-day directly other than keeping nazis busy


    Keeping them busy is losing 20 million dead? Keeping them busy is inflicting 4 million casualties on the Germans? Keeping them busy is having your cities and countryside annihilated? Keeping them busy is wiping out whole armies and liberating eastern Europe? The nazis only had a token force in western Europe compared to what was on the Eastern front.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    "Following the Battle of Kursk, the Russians began a series of offensives that would drive the Germans out of Russia and eventually bring them into the Balkans and Central Europe. In the fall of 1943, they succeeded in pushing the Germans back across the Dnieper River. They also liberated Smolensk and cut off German forces in the Crimea. In early 1944, they completed the liberation of the Ukraine and completely relieved the long besieged city of Leningrad. In the summer and fall, they inflicted a crushing defeat on the Germans in what is now Belarus, invaded Rumania, and crossed into Poland and the Baltic States. On 12 January, 1945, the Russians began an offensive into Central Poland and quickly penetrated into Germany itself. In the south they completed their conquest of Hungary and captured Vienna. In the north they isolated East Prussia, overran Eastern Pommerania and Silesia, and thrust into Central Germany. General Weidling surrendered Berlin on 2 May.

    After Kursk, Geoffrey Jukes states:

    The war in the east became a continuous story of Soviet advances,great lunges from one river barrier to the next, halted only when the Red Army outran its supply lines, and punctuated by victory salvoes in Moscow. Able German generals were able to conduct the retreat with such skill that the inevitable collapse did not take place until nearly two years had passed. But the process of weakening was an inexorable one, and though accelerated by the need to fight a war on other fronts, it had set in before any Allied troops had set foot on the continent.

    Soviet strategy for the remainder of the war was to methodologically regain every inch of territory captured by the Germans. Against the well trained and entrenched German soldiers, they employed tremendous amounts of artillery. After gaps had been created in the front, the Russians sent in their tank forces to enlarge and expand the breakthrough. they did not opt for encirclements like the Germans, but "preferred to achieve a decisive effect by a few deep thrusts. . .with limited objectives, their intention being no so much to achieve a deep penetration along one line of advance as to force the opponent back along a broad front." Russian plans were aided by Hitler, who continuously ordered his troops to hold every line and defend every locality. The most glaring example of the failure of Hitler's rigid thinking was the destruction of Army Group Center in June and July of 1944, where the Germans lost about 350,000 men. "

    The Russians took most of Germany's offence i cant believe people cant recognise this.
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Consider also that the allies liberated France, Itlay and Benelux whereas the Soviets liberated all their own territory and pretty much all of East Europe i.e. far more territory and people, as well as more of Germany itself.......
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by Toadborg
    Consider also that the allies liberated France, Itlay and Benelux

    And North Africa, East Asia...
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    Originally posted by minimi38
    Keeping them busy is losing 20 million dead? Keeping them busy is inflicting 4 million casualties on the Germans? Keeping them busy is having your cities and countryside annihilated? Keeping them busy is wiping out whole armies and liberating eastern Europe? The nazis only had a token force in western Europe compared to what was on the Eastern front.

    no i werent having a go at that, its just this was a commemeration of the beachhead assault, to begin the liberation of the western front, of which was a remarkable achievement it even suceeded thanks to planning and got disinformation of the nazis

    VE day for victory in europe should commemerate russians too as they made humungous sacrifices for the war as a whole but for D-Dayits the memorial of getting a foothold on actual mainland europe, whilst the soviet's were fighting a lomst purely land battle which pushes back and forth, even if it is loads more casulities itsj ust the sheer logistical difficulty of a sea based assualt that is being celebrated
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    Former MemberFormer Member Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
    N.Africa, true, but like you say this about D-day.

    In E.Asia it was in fact the Soviets who liberated much of China, in terms of landmass and no. of people iw was quiote possibly more than the allies despite their late invovement on that front........
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