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dangerous precedent?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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I guess even a supposed left wing government can't get past allowing for discrimination against the Muslim minority to score political points.
So Jewish teachers can still wear a yarmulke and a christian teacher would I guess be allowed to wear a cross?
I can grasp the reason for a ban on religious symbols but surely you would have to apply it across all religions???
violates all sorts of fundamental freedoms..
I forsee unnecessary legal bills
It doesnt actually violate any fundamental freedoms- employers can dictate whyat uniform and dress is acceptable, the ECHR does not cover it.
Though I do await with interest what Strasbourg will say about these laws.
The headscarves are not religious symbols, they are social symbols. Therefore no part of the ECHR applies, and the German state is free to do as it wishes.
It might not be morally acceptable, but legally it is fine.
The fact that no such prohibitions are being made against Christian or Jewish prectices, images, etc.. is, I would argue, an infringement of both religious and human rights.
My Daughters school does not allow ear-rings based upon safety of pupils, so could this be why they are been banned ? Assuming if someone wanted to strangle someone they could use the scarf ?
Im probably gonna be made a laughing stock, but thats the only reason I can think of why they would want to ban them anyway.
Yeah I appreciate we aint talking about ear-rings but it is something that has been banned in some schools. I wondered wether it was also a safety issue because I cant see why else they would want to ban it, I dont buy the ban for religious reasons, thats all.
No I dont think crosses would be more convenient tools.
The reason why the Germans want them banned is because it is the Turkish who wear them, and the Turkish are a very large problem in Germany.
Ah right now I get you, Thanks.
I myself live in a largely Turkish quarter of Brussels and they are some of the most enterprising and industrious people in the city despite the harrassment and segregation they face from both the police and the local authorities.
They have a long way to catch up before I agree to European super state.
The thing is a particularly German problem in a lot of ways, because of how strictly they control who can and cannot become a citizen, and what rights non-citizens have.
But dont think that were much better- we have the legal rights, but the social rights? Im not so sure.
I doubt the minorities being "punished", as they so delightfully revel in telling us, are exactly blameless in the Germans feeling that they have to do this. Though i dont really know enough about the Turkish problem in Germany to comment further.
It seems that these countries are outlawing the wearing of scarves based on tolerance, ironically. many people se these scarves as the Muslim faith subjugating women, and as such do not see them as religious symbols but as social symbols.
Though they are inherently religious, which is why the French in particular are banning them on the basis of secularism. I guess they are seen as the religious arm of the social trend of subjugating women, and as such are not felt appropriate for schoolchildren.
What I find incredibly interesting is the fact that they are banned from public buildings in Turkey too, and the Turkish government is ocntrolled by as Islamic party. To say it is racist in this context is bizarre in the extreme.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3135600.stm
Sounds like the pc brigade getting extremely confused about their own values to me.
Be aware that regardless of what flavour of government happens to hold the public institutions, Turkish politics have long walked a fine line of deference to the ultimate dictats of the Turkish military leadership.
One need only examine how many public policies which have historically run counter to the will of the military have either been forcibly rescinded/overturned or have resulted in military overthrow of the public leadership.
Therefore, even with an Islamist party in the majority, they are not free to institute policies which many of their supporters might find more in line with their religious beliefs (including the choice of many religious females).
As i mentioned, I live in a largely Turkish quarter of Brussels and here i see many Turkish women who prefer to eschew any head covering and many who choose to wear them. At no time have i seen one camp suggesting to the other that they are oppressed and in fact have even heard some who have chosen to adopt head coverings defending it against comments by Belgians that its all just a trapping of oppression.
I simply argue that its not a subject which German legislators should be seizing upon on the basis according to which it is being justified, without similarly banning Jewish head coverings and Christian symbology as well. Of course we all can reasonably anticipate the outcry that would ensue if Jewish practices of any kind were prohibited, especially with the spectre of history hanging over that country.
People need to be more tolerant. Saying that, Islamic countries also need to be more tolerant of Western cultures. My family used to live in Iran and my mother had to wear Hijab, even as a non Muslim British woman.
The West should not take one step backwards though. We are supposed to live in a free, tolerant society.
I've heard stories that in some states of America you can't wear a pentacle to school.
Wicca is not something people approach in general with an open mind ready for dialogue.