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Well what do they expect?
BillieTheBot
Posts: 8,721 Bot
So the governor of Gibraltar as well as Jack Straw have criticised Spain's decision to seal its border to Gibraltar after it allowed the bug-infested ship Aurora dock. Story
What did they expect anyway? The Greeks didn't allow the ship in for good reason (and the British government didn't have much of a problem then). Is it that unreasonable that Spain takes similar precautions and tries to protect itself against this unwelcome and imported disease??
Why oh why do the British government think they can dump anything they like on Gibraltar, be a quarantined ship or a nuclear submarine with a fucking leaking reactor :mad:, and then pretend to be hurt when the Spanish kick a fuss or close its borders?
And why oh why do the Gibraltarians put up with it? Are they so desperate to remain British that they are happy to ignore the British government's clear wish to get rid of the colony as well as using it as a nuclear dump, quarantine area or SAS killing fields???
What did they expect anyway? The Greeks didn't allow the ship in for good reason (and the British government didn't have much of a problem then). Is it that unreasonable that Spain takes similar precautions and tries to protect itself against this unwelcome and imported disease??
Why oh why do the British government think they can dump anything they like on Gibraltar, be a quarantined ship or a nuclear submarine with a fucking leaking reactor :mad:, and then pretend to be hurt when the Spanish kick a fuss or close its borders?
And why oh why do the Gibraltarians put up with it? Are they so desperate to remain British that they are happy to ignore the British government's clear wish to get rid of the colony as well as using it as a nuclear dump, quarantine area or SAS killing fields???
Beep boop. I'm a bot.
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Comments
The Greeks are just as bad, I can't help thinking that if it weren't a British ship nobody would have batted an eyelid.
As for wanting to get rid of Gibraltar I don't know, I think its because the EU want to use it for the doomed 'Euroarmy'.
Hell, you don't need to look further than the asylum seekers situation, where the Daily Mosley and the Scum can't stop crying about "all those people bringing disease into this country".
However it seems that all normal rules and procedures must be abandoned by other countries if British subjects are involved. :rolleyes:
If it was a foriegn ship wanting to dock in Britain I imagine it would be allowed, with free medical care for anyone that was ill. I don't quite see how that makes any difference in this case, its a British ship thats docked in a British port on British soil.
A Gibraltarian was interviewed on the news before, he was on the ship, he wasn't worried at all.
When our Govt (or even the spanish) block borders to anyone infected with any other disease then I will say that this isn't an overreaction.
Until then I will see this as the political gambit that it is.
What you have here is a minor irritant. You cannot honestly tell me that nowhere in Spain is this illness (or others like it) currently running rife...
Indeed they do. Have the Govt closed our border to these people? No
Have they effectively quaranteened and entire island? Not yet and I'd be surprised if you support the Tories' plan for Assylum Island...
This bug is not nearly as dangerous as others, but nonetheless it seems rather stupid to allow in hundreds or even thousands of people who although might no longer be sick they might be still carrying the bug and spreading it to spill into Spain.
This is not as if the ship was going to dock into a big country where most if not all of the passengers would disperse. There would be for instance no point in sealing the border with Portugal if the ship had docked there; firstly because the inconvenience caused would greatly outweigh the benefits; and secondly because there would not be more than a handful or so who might visit Spain in the coming few days.
However there isn't a lot of places those people can go to in Gibraltar, and chances are that hundreds would have crossed to Spain- therefore guaranteeing the spread of the bug there. I see no political reasons to close the border in this case- just common sense.
With no passport control between EU countries, and little if any customs, I'd say that such checks were unlikely.
Certainly I've never had any check carried out on me when I have enetered another EU nation. Including Spain.
BTW How does such a border closure fit in with the EU "No border" approach?
It's (apparently) gastroentoritis, and it's doing the rounds in the UK at the moment. I see no other border being closed, and there must be several hundred UK citizen entering Spain on a daily basis.
I can see why they have done this, I just think that they have used it as an excuse. It certainly isn't justfied to that extent. It's a stomach bug, not ebola.
The case is easy to track (since it's all contained within a cruise ship), it sticks out like a sore thumb and it is a world of difference from an individual or even a whole family entering the country. A few individuals carrying the bug present little or no danger at all- and even if they did they're almost impossible to track; a boatful of sick passengers is another matter, and unless you are under medical obligation or emergency to let them in, it is frankly profoundly stupid to allow them to pour in so willingly.
A bloke from round the corner had a cold last week, I think I might block the road off when I get home.
My old man happens to be a chief petty officer on the Aurora. A the moment he's here at home on leave, but has ben speaking to some of the crew in Gib today. This bug is no more than a common stomach upset - yes it is unlpleasant but it certainly doesn't carry much risk.
The reason why it's spread so easily around a ship is that there are morning and lunch time buffets which must be an ideal way for this virus to spread. This virus is not airborn. A cruise ship contains hundreds of staff and crew with limited space and they all eat socially (morning and afternoon buffets) so the virus thrives. On land the virus will not thrive. You've got to reaslie that this virus was bought on by someone in Southampton - and living very close to Southampton I can quite safely say there are no outbreaks here.
The passengers are moaning because various social things that occur on the ship have had to be cancelled - they WILL be compensated, there's no doubt about that.
The Spanish have been silly to what they have. They want Gib - they aint going to get it. A publicity stunt like this is foolish.
Er... 11 people were suffering yesterday. On the whole it only affected 30% of the passengers.
Not according to P&O. The passengers were allowed to disembark in Italy and Croatia, and neither of these countries closed borders...
Actually, this was excellent infection control and no different to how patients with this problem are treated in hospital. The idea of doing this is to prevent cross infection. I heard a couple of passengers talking last night, each of which were talking about the antiseptic wipes they had been asked to use.
None of the passengers were allowed off the ship with their passports and couldn't therefore have entered Spain.
I note that the border is open again today. This bug has a two day (ish) incubation period. If the Spanish were really concerned about possible infection then surely they should wait to see if the bug has been passed on?
BTW Both of my boys have it now, I guess I should be locked inside my house - just in case
However they were turned away from Greece, and other than some predictable cries from the Daily BlackMail no one had much to say about it, including at official level. But when it comes to the evil Spanish, it only takes a bit of moaning by a certain colony to send the Foreign Office into a complaining wankfest.
I must say I didn't know the passengers weren't allowed to take their passports with them- but then again nor were the Spanish authorities, since according to them the Gibraltarians had not told them a single word whatsoever about the operation. So as far as they were concerned, they could be handling hundreds of recovering/incubating passengers flooding through the borders.
Perhaps they were aware that the ship was only docking for a few hours? Another reason to close the gates then. If the ship was going to stay in Gibraltar for a week the disruption of closing the gate would have been tremendous. Twelve hours is not exactly something to write home about (although some certainly do).
Whichever way I look at it, I must still say that the Spanish authorities did what anyone would have done in such case. But it's obvious that whatever they do, they can't win and the pretty authorities of Gibraltar will start crying at any given chance.
If this ship had docked in the Rep. of Ireland do you think the Northern Irish border would have been closed? No it wouldn't. The Spanish government are acted like children, like I said before, its not the plague.
This is a prime example of why a "United States of Europe" wouldn't work.
Aladdin do you actually read The Mail? You've mentioned it on every post in this thread. If you don't like it do what everyone else does and don't buy it.
A fair few possibly, but not too many because of the infection control measure which P&O used.
I really cannot praise them enough for that.
Yep, but not from Italy and Croatia.
Had you started the thread about Greece, I would have condemned them too!
Why should they? The ship wasn't docking at a Spanish port
That would be like us telling France when the ship docks in the UK in the next couple of days.
That said, I'm sure that Jack Straw told the Radio 4 news last night that this had been discussed with Spain over the weekend.
Then might I be so arrogant as to suggest that you look at it again, noting that both Venice and Dbrovnik allowed the ship to dock and for passengers to disembark?
Seems to me like the Spainish overreacted and I am in no doubt that the political emotion surrounding Gibraltar had a huge amount to do with it.
BTW I don't think that the Spainish are in any way "evil" just a little precious about Gibraltar
It's not your complaining that bothers me, it's the Foreign Office's- all too happy to ignore some countries' responses while moaning about others.
Because if the Spanish authorities had been informed that any passengers were not being allowed to cross over to Spain there would have been no need for concern and no need to close the border?
Difference being that Gibraltar is a tiny enclave with not many places to go, and therefore it's quite probable that hundreds of those passengers would be crossing into Spain in the 12 hours or so they were to spend in the area. Obviously that doesn't apply elsewhere.
It's their decision- although I do get the feeling that the problem was reaching its peak as the ship approached Greece. But if other nations are happy to allow disease-ridden ships to dock, it's of course up to them.
I won't deny there is bad blood and tension between Gibraltar and Spain and that dirty tricks and petty revenge has taken place over the years- but there might be genuine occasions in which a country acts out of what believes is its best interests. If this does not count as one of those occasions I don't know what does.
'Mass infection'
Unlike Sars this is not an airborn virus - unless large numbers of spanish were going to sit down and eat with the infected passengers's then there really was no threat. The Spanish went OTT IMHO!
Like a couple of dagos with sticks would stop the British Army:p
sorry:)
The point is that Spain are hypocritical about the wider issue of Gibraltar. I MIGHT have sopme sympathy with the Spanish about Gibraltar when Spain gets the hell out of North Africa, where it hasnt been wanted for fifty years or more.
Spain cannot complain about the British when they declare war on Morrocco for the Morroccans putting a flag on a island about 300 square yards in size, and sending 20 warships to put the Spanish flag back up.
If Spain had said the ship couldnt dock in, say, Barcelona or Malaga, then no-one opwuld have complained, really. Most passengers wouldnt have left Gibraltar, it was only a stopover- to shut the border is an over-reaction done with spite in mind, nothing else.
Dbrovnik isnt exactly some mighty industrial city with millions of people in it, and nor is Venice.
Besides, the ship wasnt goign to be in Gibraltar long enough for the passengers to go on a day trip to Madrid :rolleyes:
It was a convenient excuse, nothing more and nothing less. And the convenient excuse has now set a precedent- next time theres a outbreak of flu or the squits in Gibraltar, you can bet your bottom dollar that the border will be shut for a month.
Actually, given the size of Gibraltar chances are that many if not most of the passengers would have crossed if given the chance.
The border has not been closed for 3 decades. It is something that it's not done lightly, and despite the claims from the dear princesses at Gibraltar government HQ, not done out of spite.
Er... more than plenty of time for those people to enter Spanish territory. That's all that counts.
I very much doubt that. Spain has had enough "convenient excuses" to close the border during the last 3 decades. It hasn't done so because, despite the claims from certain quarters, it does not work in such way. I doubt things will change now.
This whole episode would have been avoided if someone had simply made a phone call and told the Spanish the passengers would not be allowed to take their passports with them. But not a single word was passed.
Regardless of the sovereignty issue, if Gibraltar really wants to improve relations with Spain a good start would be to open up some communication channels, stop bitching about imaginary things, and while they are at it clean up their act and put an end to the smugglers' and dodgy businesses' paradise the place has become.
I might be wrong, but wasnt the ship just docking for one day, to have a day trip around The Rock? I doubt that theyd cross into Spain, because outside of Gibraltar that part of Spain isnt what youd call scenic.
The whole situation wouldnt have happened if Spain hadnt grossly over-reacted to what was a glorified case of the squits.
And to my mind wasnt the border closed three years ago in a Spanish fit of pique? You know, when the queues on either side of the frontier were seven hours long because of it...
Madrid has no intention of communicating with Gibraltar, it has shown that time and time again. Spanish desires go no further than having a red and yellow flag flying over the Rock. bThey never have done.
And Spain is one to talk about dodgy businessmen, the Costa del Crime anyone?
This I couldn't resist though: Well considering that 99.999999999999999999999% of those criminals who have given Costa del Sol the nickname 'Costa del Crime' seem to be British Nationals, you might have spoken prematurely there. :rolleyes:
It is universal knowledge that Gibraltar is an irresistible magnet for money laundering, smuggling and other unsavoury business. The biggest spot in Europe and indeed one of the biggest in the world for it, as a matter of fact.
But neither the Gibraltarian nor the British authorities seem too concerned with it. Long live the offshore company, the cheap booze, the perma-tanned gangster and the tacky plastic Union Jacks and souvenir shops.
So you suggest this is an argument about a virus - nothing else?
but then...
and...
...even you start bringing other points into the argument which have no realtion to virus's. Surely you - just like the Spanish government - are letting previous bad feelings affect your arguments.
Better than tacky red and yellow ones tho!