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Govt. steps in - but will it make a difference?
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
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Tony said history would forgive them? well i suggest that history has already indicted them for lies (the extent of which is yet to be known and may never be) and if the prisoners start to be executed by what is essentially a soviet and nazi practice of secret military tribunals with no real defence possible then they will be shown to be all that they condemn and thus the ultimate lie will be revealed.
It's sickening and im sure its opened alot of wounds in the Japanese community for what they suffered at the hands of mass unquestioning ignorance and a govt with a heavy handed power crazed agenda.
By continuing to cover their previous lies with even more lies and spin they are only digging deeper the hole into which history will quite happily bury them both!
The prospect of war on Iraq saw the biggest public protests in history, both in Britain and elsewhere. They might have not stopped the warmongering imperialistic mad Texan and his poodle from going ahead anyway- nothing short of killing them and their entire governments would have- but this popular uprising will likely cost Blair, even Bush, their posts.
So even that the military campaign was "won" Blair and Bush will still go down in history as villains who embarked in a imperialistic war of conquest for financial and geopolitical reasons, causing the deaths of tens of thousands and after duping some into supporting their war with false pretenses, and against the wishes of much of the population.
They will simply be seen as what they are.
Personally I think the government's involvement is just a formality, I don't think they really give two hoots.
It will all depend on what happens next. The US government will not want to send them back to Britain. There are citizens of many countries in Cuba, including a number of European nations and of course Spain (a country that was a most staunch supporter of the war). If the British prisoners are allowed to be tried at home it will set a precedent and every other country will demand their citizens are sent home too.
No word yet about the other 7 British prisoners, and considering the speed at which things are being done there is a good chance some prisoners will remain illegally imprisoned there for many years to come. Then probably, after 10 years rotting in jail without being even charged with anything, they'll be let go by another government.
All in all, this will be remembered in history as one of the most shameful and disgusting acts ever committed by a US government. Its lowest point, and something future American generations will remember in shame.
Thus will we witness again and again even greater betrayal of all the hallowed principles of freedom and justice which our politicans give lip service to and will receive our due recompense for such betrayal.
Bush did offer to send Australian citizens in Guantanamo back to Oz but John Howard, the Australian PM, said that they could stay in Guantanamo. Also the Pakistani government lodged official diplomatic protests with the Americans and got their citizens back. It seems that being a pain in the arse about it gets your citizens back, and given the meekness of this government on the issue I doubt we'll see them come back which is absolutely shameful of this government but as long as Tony gets applause from Congress who cares that two British citizens will be murdered by a cowboy court?
As for the "history will forgive us" GWST is right when she says that history is written by the victors - however, I don't think Blair and Bush are the victors. Let's look at the evidence - in the face of huge global and domestic protests Blair and Bush sought their mandate for war through the UN only to ditch it when it became clear that the UN wouldn't back their war. Then they began a war on Iraq which has still not ended which is seeing increasing numbers of Allied troops die in guerilla attacks by the Iraqi people who, pro-Saddam or not, are hostile to being occupied by a foreign power. The Allies have also failed to restore basic services like water, electricity and gas to the Iraqi people which were working before the war and they have failed to produce any significant arrests except a few members of Saddam's cabinet and just like in Afghanistan have failed to catch the main target of Saddam Hussein. Meanwhile the fabled Weapons of Mass Destruction which were the main plank of the case for war, especially in Britain have failed to materialise despite increasing resources for searches while Iraq's resources are now in the hands of American companies who are linked to the administration which began the war in the first place.
To be honest, I'm surprised the Americans didn't just plant some WMDs there, well there's still time I suppose.
This however shall subside as time passes and it becomes apparent that the US public has been scared and brainwash by a government far too keen to use the word 'terrorism' and make apocalyptic predictions unless all those rogue states are dealt with.
The current wave of ultra-nationalism will eventually die down and all the decent people in the US will be heard loud and clear, specially once the Bush administration is no longer in office.
Bumblebee> you raise an important point which gives me no end of heartache concerning patriotism and how it is (and has long been) misapplied by the right wing in the US.
Petriotism is love for one's nation, not one's government. A true Patriot would be the first to deamnd full accountability from our elected leaders rather than pandering unquestioningly to their whims and allowing them to dictate their own agenda, especially when they wish to put American lives other than their own at risk.
The media is also shamefully compliant in catering to and propagating the misapplication of "patriotism" in acting as the mouthpiece of our leaders rather than a public watchdog meant to continuously scrutinise their actions.
I have no solution to this quandry but if things continue to slide downward for the administration as I pray fervently they will, the true patriots will emerge to pull down the real evil threatening the country.
I hope true British patriots will do likewise re: Blair!