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National Identity Cards
Former Member
Posts: 1,876,323 The Mix Honorary Guru
I remember this debate being on the news a good while ago - the issue of whether we should have national identity cards in the UK - and I think it would be a really good idea.
It would mean people who don't have a passport or driving licence could open a bank account etc. They could be used as the only accepted piece of ID for buying alcohol, getting into bars etc etc, which would be good for people who don't have a driving licence or Prove It card and don't want to take their passport on a night out. It would also, of course, help with the whole immigration situation.
So where are the disadvantages in it then?
It would mean people who don't have a passport or driving licence could open a bank account etc. They could be used as the only accepted piece of ID for buying alcohol, getting into bars etc etc, which would be good for people who don't have a driving licence or Prove It card and don't want to take their passport on a night out. It would also, of course, help with the whole immigration situation.
So where are the disadvantages in it then?
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The downsides are that the government will have a centrally stored database of information on you, unlike now where they have the same information just all in different government departments, your health records in the Department of Health, your tax records at the Inland Revenue, your criminal record with the Home Office etc etc. Also it would contain information about you on a computer chip such as your fingerprints and iris scan which is seen as an invasion of privacy by civil liberties groups.
In my opinion I would have national identity cards not necessarily compulsory but they would be so useful in every day situations and save us having to carry around the dozen or so different types of ID we carry around anyway. I think the main opposition is that it is a slippery slope that would lead to a police state.
It is so not though. Like you said, the government has all this info anyway. And as long as it was not made compulsory to carry the ID card at all times, then I don't see how it is an invasion of privacy or a creation of a Big Brother state. It's just a practical solution to a lot of problems.
I know you said you agree though, so I'm not arguing with you
Personally I am all for them, I can never have enough ID!! I have nothing to hide.
Some people argue that they can be used to "track" your every move. However, we're already tracked. Everytime we use a debit or credit card people gather information about us. Think about all the times you don't use cash - you're being tracked. Someone somewhere tracks your spending behaviour, and in today's world spending is a big part of who we are. (Of course this only applies to adults!)
The government already has so much on us (like Kevlar said, health records ( which actually can't be divulged), tax records etc)
It's a violation of people's freedom. Why should you have to present such a card on demand or be forced to carry such a thing around with you?
The proposals for ID cards is that they are not compulsory to carry around with you but they are compulsory to have in your possession. But they will be required for ID in many fields so in essence they're no more a violation of people's freedom than driving licences - or would you like to ban those as a violation of people's freedom too? :rolleyes:
If it were mandatory then it IS a violation of people's freedom.
As I said above it will not be compulsory to carry your ID card on your person just to have one in your possession. Seeing as a rather large majority of British people support identity cards rather than calling those of us who support it "crackpot Thatcherites, neo-conservatives, communists and hardline socialists" maybe you'd do better looking at yourself as a loony liberal
If they're introduced it will be mandatory to have one but not to carry it around with you. Where do you stand on that?
At the end of the day, how dare anyone tell you that you don't have the right to enjoy a few pints of Stella after a long day's work before driving home?
Jesus Christ, we live in such oppressive, hateful world!
The only point where I might agree with you is the issue of making people carry them by law. There is no ground or sense in opposing mandatory issue though for the reasons stated on this thread already.
Besides, as a Spaniard I have first class knowledge of ID cards and I can assure you they make life so much easier. From opening bank accounts to proving your age to becoming member of your local video shop to a million different things, the ID card removes the need for endless cross-checkings, demands of 3 different proofs of ID (one with photo!) and cuts down enormously on red tape and paperwork. Hell, I've even used it as an I.O.U. when I didn't have enough money to pay a bar bill.
Yes there are. The state has no business in attempting to track its citizens because it wishes the country to be more secure.
Excuse me but what a load of BS. Firstly, what is the point of having ID cards as a single form of identity if everyone is not made to own one? The whole idea falls apart if it is not used for everyone.
Secondly, who said anything about the state? The ID cards would most likely be used to opening bank accounts, getting proof of age etc cases where private businesses would be involved. Also what tracking device? If I take my gas bill to Nationwide to open an account does that automatically mean British Gas know where I was and can track my every move?
It is not a tracking device, it is not a monitoring device, it is an identifying device - it does exactly what it says on the tin.
Hmm...reading this thread and actually thinking about it, I've just realised I wrote a crap essay. Ahh well it was done on three hours sleep and one cup of coffee. I should have done the drugs question...anywho that's off-topic.
How does that mean a violation of civil liberties or turning into a police state? If the government did want to keep a Big Brother eye on us all, I'm sure it would do so without being so obvious as to introduce an ID card.
The practicalities of the card, in my view, far outweigh the conspiracy theories
I was just thinking the same thing - maybe we really are on the same wavelength! :eek2: I agree with you totally. I don't think it is a violation of civil liberties myself no more than your National Insurance card or NHS number is a violation of your civil liberties. It wouldn't turn us into a police state but people say that it could be the beginning of a slippery slope which I disagree with and backed up using the example of how difficult it is for MI5 to monitor you.
I agree totally with what you say.
I just have this gut instinct which tells me it is wrong, that we should be concerned about it. Anything which could make it easier for your Govt to monitor your movement is a bad thing - whether you have something to hide or not.